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9/27/2012
03:03 PM
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Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas

Microsoft says it can't find enough skilled IT workers to fill open positions, but critics say the company is merely trying to justify hiring foreigners.

Microsoft has thousands of openings for computer scientists, programmers, and other IT pros that it can't fill due to a shortage of skilled workers, a company executive said Thursday.

"We are creating unfilled jobs," said Microsoft chief counsel Brad Smith, speaking at a forum on immigration policy at the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C. "We have a shortage."

Smith said Microsoft currently has 6,000 openings, 3,400 of which are for software engineers, developers, programmers, and the like. He said Microsoft can't fill many of the positions because it is unable to find enough applicants with the high-tech skills it needs in key areas like cloud computing and mobility.

[ For another perspective on IT hiring, see How To Build A High-Performance IT Team. ]

Smith said the problem is twofold: U.S. colleges aren't turning out enough grads educated in science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM), and the U.S. government's immigration policies are preventing the company from importing enough foreign workers to fill the gap.

Smith said the economy is creating 120,000 new jobs per year that require STEM skills, but colleges are only producing 40,000 STEM grads annually. "This shortage is going to get worse," said Smith.

Smith called on Congress to increase the number of high-tech visas available for foreign IT workers. He said the government should issue 20,000 STEM-specific visas each year, in addition to the 65,000 H-1B visas currently available. He also called for 20,000 new green cards for tech workers. Smith said the government should charge companies $10,000 per visa for the former, and $15,000 for the latter.

Smith said the government could use the $500 million that such programs would create to fund more STEM training for U.S. students. The programs would also allow Microsoft and other high-tech employers "to fill the jobs that are simply sitting open today."

Smith said the shortage of high-tech workers is impacting more than just technology companies. "The future of any industry in this country, you're thinking and talking about the future of software," said Smith, who noted that industries like financial services, healthcare, and manufacturing are more dependent on IT than ever. "We are not alone," said Smith.

If Congress fails to enact immigration reforms, "the jobs could go to other countries," said Smith.

Not everyone buys Microsoft's claim that there is a shortage of American IT workers. Critics say the company simply wants to hire more foreign workers because they cost less.

"They probably have 6,000 jobs to fill because they are enamored of foreign labor," said Les French, president of WashTech, a Seattle are tech worker advocacy group that is affiliated with Communications Workers of America. "I doubt they couldn’t fill the jobs from the available labor pool in the U.S.," said French, in an e-mail to InformationWeek.

The 65,000 H-1B visas that were allotted for the government's new fiscal year, which starts next week, have all been used, according to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

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bdilbert980
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bdilbert980,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/28/2012 | 5:41:08 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
The big lie - employers cannot find qualified American talent. Keep repeating it over, and over, and over, and eventually people think its the truth.

Fact - there is NO shortage of highly qualified American tech talent, more than ready, willing and able to innovate, solve our country's problems, and take us forward.

There is ZERO need for H1B visa workers in the US until egregious loopholes in H1b visa law are changed. Today it is 100% legal for employers to NEVER consider Americans and exclusively recruit offshore for jobs in your zip code.

Why can't employers find qualified Americans? Simple, they don't want to - since they bought off Congress, they are not legally required to ever seek American talent.

How can this happen? Ask Bill Gates and convicted felon/sidekick Jack Abramoff - google "Greedy Gates Gambit" to learn more. Reads like a Tom Clancy novel, too bad its not fiction.
GAProgrammer
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GAProgrammer,
User Rank: Ninja
9/28/2012 | 6:25:47 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
As usual, someone's solution to the education "shortage" is to throw money at it. Why not butter up the politicians with another way to get another $500 million, about 50 million of which would actually make it to any educational program, right? The problem is the education system. Until it gets fixed, we could throw the entire national budget at it and the problem will remain.

I am not sure where the entire solution lies, but it definitely is not creating yet another failing government program by milking private industry.
Andrew
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Andrew,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/28/2012 | 6:33:54 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
Assuming there truly is a shortage (and I have my doubts), wouldn't it make sense for Microsoft, with its vast wealth, to fund more scholarships across the United States for software engineering, computer science and computer engineering students to draw them to the field and expand the resource pool? This line of thought assumes that universities have the resources and capacity to handle more students in these fields but if the demand were there, surely the universities would react to meet that demand. Microsoft's real motivation, I suspect, is a desire to bring in lower cost talent to provide an alternative, and competition, to domestic workers with the goal of reducing its labor costs.
AustinIT
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AustinIT,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/28/2012 | 6:52:41 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
Microsoft - I'm not buying your excuses.

We live in a globally connected world don't we? So, quit griping about not being able to hire enough workers that you want stateside and hire them in the country you want to recruit them from. Use your own technology to communicate with them instead of trying to convince us how uneducated you think our populace is.
akeenan452
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akeenan452,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/28/2012 | 7:08:19 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
Microsoft has a history of this. If you look back in time they were big on contractors who were really employees. This is not about lack of talent it is about willingness to train and/or pay. Having said that it is a fact that each year a greater percentage of world wide college grads will not be Americans. The number of grads overseas is increasing and is expected to increase for decades. American companies will want to take advantage of this pool of workers. So american workers will have to compete against this labor source in America or as off shored resources. This will likely also act to keep wages from increasing at levels Americans enjoyed in the past. 2 apples and 2 dollars = one dollar an apple. 10 apples and 2 dollars = 20 cent apples.
American IT worker
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American IT worker,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/28/2012 | 7:14:24 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
Why not spend the $10,000 to $15,000 training an American? There are plenty of American IT workers who would love the opportunity.
SkiMan01
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SkiMan01,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/28/2012 | 7:45:38 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
There is one way to test the thesis of the article. Paul McDougall who wrote this article can volunteer to be the point man of a test. It goes as follows:

Everyone who reads this article should send in a resume to Microsoft and at the same time forward a copy of he resume and the article to their Federal Congressman and Senator. then forward a copy to Paul here at Informationweek. If you get no reply in, say one month, then forward another email to informationweek and let Paul take score of how many people Micorsoft is willing to interview and how many they actually hire.

Well, Paul, what do you think, if everyone is willing to send a resume are you willing to track the results?
MyW0r1d
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MyW0r1d,
User Rank: Strategist
10/1/2012 | 4:20:01 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
Already done as the one example subject of your proposed test (and yes I agree with Les French's opinion). I graduated in a STEM related degree field with a 4.0 average after having concentrated on and held top certifications from Microsoft, Cisco, Citrix and others. Still, the rejection notices when I was looking were all the same "sorry, but the competition was extremely keen or we have identified someone who better matched the skill set we desire." Implication, there are a lot of candidates. Interpretation, you are not under 25 or willing to accept less than $X to work with us. It is much less the hard qualifications than the accessory quals they are looking at and it is not only Microsoft (HP, Dell, ...listen to the footsteps).

As for more highly qualified, do this. Visit some english language tech blogging/chat sites where professionals try to exchange info or solve problems and try to identify the native english speaking from the foreign participants. Evaluate and analyze the level of the questions being posted and give consideration for possible language limitations. I think you will still be surprised.
halseyjr61
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halseyjr61,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/28/2012 | 11:01:38 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
I am sorry to inform some of the people that have posted comments here that the US does have ample talent in the critical field of STEM that they are wrong. The fact is that the US does not graduate as many engineers and related compared to countries like China, India and others.
China, India, Japan and others are highly nationalistic nations and realize the importance of leadership in high technologies. Some nations provide free education for talented individuals. American students are effectively 'priced out' of higher eduction which has an effect on national security as mentioned later.
I had recently read an article relating to this subject. Many foreign students train here in the US at prestigious US colleges in courses like engineering, computer science, physics etc. and a group of foreign students were interviewed and asked if they would prefer to remain in the US if allowed (60 minutes piece related to H1B visas). Many responded wanting to stay here in the US but are forced back to their respective country.
Take a tour of the STEM classes in America's top colleges and I will guarantee you that the majority are foreign nationals. These individuals will take the finest education available in the world and return to their native country to work at companies competing with US tech firms.
This is a national security problem. The US must find and maintain American talent by creating interest in critical fields early in a students education timeframe preferably in junior high school.
Without sounding racist, has anyone other than myself noticed that major breakthroughs in STEM are made by foreigners or foreign born Americans?
Brian Bartlett
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Brian Bartlett,
User Rank: Strategist
9/29/2012 | 1:12:41 AM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
The problem here is that you are conflating the current pool of people obtaining recent and new STEM degrees with the available pool of candidates. InformationWeek regularly runs salary surveys and when I look at all the tech jobs available by their requirements and compare that to the offered salaries, rarely do I see a correspondence with the actual salaries paid according to the surveys for those skill sets. This indicates a serious disconnect between what is on offer as compared to what is required.

Yes, adding additional H1B workers will satisfy the need as those workers are willing to accept a lower salary than the market. This sure isn't rocket or nuclear engineering, which I can do as well. It's basic supply and demand, supply increases, salaries decline. Where are the natural market force results under increased demand with constant or (supposedly declining) supply? I should also point out that when you survey people as to which choices of fields of study they are interested in, you also find a market at work. When salaries of individuals in tech fields were high and rising at much higher than the inflation rate, the number of people from the US entering the field was rising. As the salaries, and wage growth rate, declined relative to other fields, guess what? The number of people entering the field as well as the number of US students declined. Similar alarms were also raised about the number of children from elementary to high-school interested in those fields.

Microsoft, and other firms, are making a rational, economic, argument in their own interest. Increase the supply of technical workers, and assure their availability for the near future, by increasing H1B workers makes sense. Where it does not make the least bit of sense is in relation to the interests of the workers native to this country already. They'd much rather get paid the market wage. This also ill portends for the future when disinterest by US citizens for STEM, or any tech, fields in only accelerated.

Sorry, but we are looking at an interlocking set of socio-economic relationships and simple answers have real consequences through demographic feedback loops. I understand those. Apparently not many, especially our best, bought politicians.
FloS
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FloS,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/29/2012 | 3:13:09 AM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
I don't have a tech degree but I think the idea of sending in resumes that mirror what MS says they lack would definitely prove the point. In fact, I would be more than willing to track the experiment.

I am also interested in tuition costsand financial support in India and China. My son was working on a Math degree but was unable to afford the tuition. Neither of us think borrowing $30,000 a year for tuition and living expenses is sane. So he dropped out for a year to earn money so he can go back. Now he could go part-time but that means twice as long to get his degree. If India and China are supporting their students so they can go full-time or even double up on coursework to get out faster then this needs to also be brought to the attention of elected officials. Maybe MS and Apple are paying off the politicians to get the H1B visas but without data it's a little hard to protest.
SteveAtVeriko
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SteveAtVeriko,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/29/2012 | 1:18:08 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
There's definitely great talent available already in the USA. Microsoft just prefers not to pay for it, despite the fact that they're one of the richest companies in America. They've actually been agitating on this visa issue for years. Typical big corporation, consumed with greed.
Tom Mariner
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Tom Mariner,
User Rank: Strategist
9/29/2012 | 2:49:03 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
Hey, we aren't talking best and brightest here -- they become doctors, lawyers, and earn $20,000,000 bonuses on Wall Street for telling you where to invest your money. Take all of the money the feds, the states and local governments are throwing away hiring politicians to spend more money talking about "STEM", and get it to companies as incentives / tax breaks.

And ... almost forgot about the only remaining prejudice -- AGE! If you don't think somebody who wrote main frame operating systems in assembly can get excited about JavaScript, Modernizer, HTML5 and RTOS's in weeks, you value prowess on an air hockey table higher than getting a great product to market fast. Oh wait, let's see the reasons; not keeping up with tech, can't work three days straight because of family, and get to the real one -- they want more money than somebody fifteen minutes out of college.

Microsoft and the rest of you bums -- this is the country that landed a guy on the moon -- just because our politicians sacrificed that tech incentive to get votes for 40 years doesn't mean science is not in American genes. Train them you turkeys -- then stand back and watch them take you to market dominance. Yeah, that's an in-your-face challenge! Microsoft are you bold enough? American Enough?
elleno
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elleno,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/29/2012 | 11:14:54 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
My experience is that employing Indian workers (in Bangalore, India) requires about 8 to 10 engineers to be equivalent to a US engineer except where grunt work is concerned - that is, coding GUIs or Javascript when the ratio is about 2 Indians to 1 US developer.

So the question is what is MISFIT wanting to do? Assuming it is more than grunt coding and requires actual application architecture and design well it is counter productive.

But that does not stop them. Here's what I've seen IBM do:

1) Claim there is a shortage of workers.

2) Advertise for some unusual developer skill such as Javascipt code generation (an actual example)

3) Interview a few US techies who prove to be unsuitable. Sorry but they don't have the prerequisite skills.

4) Apply to US Labor department for some H1-B visas claiming the absence of skills in the US (documentation provided).

5) Bring Indians over to the US and, of course, by the time they arrive the technology has moved on and unfortunately Javascript code generation skills are no longer needed, but hey we have a few cheap developers we can put on other projects.

6) Repeat from step 1) again and again while US developers struggle to find jobs.

And that folks is how the US is going down the tubes one Indian hire at a time with large software and service company CEOs bleating on about the lack of skills in the US as a clever smoke screen story for bringing in low cost workers.
hentai
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hentai,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/30/2012 | 12:32:44 AM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
That is EXACTLY what MS does! And I say this with the certainty of one who worked for them, until the early 2000's, when they ACTIVELY went recruiting in Dubai, Bangalore, et al...forced us to train our replacements, then "disposed" of us. I started out there at the Redmond campus, when they were still using "perma-temps", shortly before they were forced to "convert" a certain percentage of us to FTEs.

They resented losing that case, and their eventual response was to do an 'end-run' around the entire matter by starting up that whole H1-B visa gambit, which they've been milking ever since. Roughly speaking, they still can hire between 3 and 5 'imports' for the price of one of us 'home-grown'.

And contrary to their contention that it's a matter of finding adequately SKILLED individuals, their hiring practices have ALWAYS focused on one's adaptability...that is HOW one thinks, NOT WHAT one knows...The idea being, they want bright, inquisitive, EMPTY cups, the better to be filled with how MICROSOFT does it, since you will be generally working on bleeding edge technology that doesn't/didn't exist during your time in class. Keep in mind, Gates himself was a drop-out. MS culture prides itself on hiring the brightest, NOT the 'best-trained/highest educated'...Let the 'other guys' hire those whose strongest skillset is their ability to conform.

A truly business-savvy presidential candidate could likely secure a voting bloc larger than he realizes right about now, by taking a strong stand AGAINST this whole H1-B visa BS, effectively poking his (and, by extension, "the American peoples'"thumb in the eye of the likes of IBM and MS.

Unfortunately I'm afraid that would require a larger pair of cojones than either of our current stalwarts possess.

But, hey, you never know...(just don't hold your breath).
Programmers Guild
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Programmers Guild,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/30/2012 | 3:52:06 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
Microsoft is falsely using their unfilled positions as lobbying tool. Microsoft has 100,000 resumes from highly qualified Americans on file and could start hiring the best candidates immediately. However their hiring process is flawed.

First Microsoft needs to change their recruitment process: Currently applicants must apply separately for each opening. This a absurd - applicants should be able to apply for "all openings that match my skills." There are too many highly skilled Americans applying for jobs at Microsoft and never hearing back. It's difficult to believe that they would not be a good match for some of those 6000 positions.

http://careers.microsoft.com/

Next Micosoft needs to not robo-reject (or reject by non-technical HR staff) resumes based on key-word matching.

Many of these job posting have unrealistic "laundry list" requirements like 3-5 years of experience in a set of specific new technologies. Note that NO new graduates - including "PhD from Stanford" - would qualify for these positions. The unrealistic requirements dissuade top candidates from even applying

I hope Microsoft is suggesting that is intends to fill the bulk of their 6000 openings with H-1b workers rather than Americans. In any event, even when the H-1b cap had not been reached, Microsoft had several thousand jobs opened. This supports our claim that the problem is not a lack of applicants, but rather Microsoft's flawed recruitment process and unrealistic expectations (and the natural lag that it takes to post and recruit for openings.)

There are perhaps 20,000 fast food openings, 10,000 truck driver openings, 40,000 retail clerk openings today in the USA - does this mean that there is a shortage of qualified Americans?

Microsoft does not disclose how many unfilled openings they have in India. But the tech job market is tighter in India than in USA - why is Microsoft not also calling for an H-1b program in India to solve their unfilled positions there? (I have also observed in the past that the openings in India have a lower bar - there are many more entry-level openings than in USA.)

I object to Microsoft's $10,000 fee - that is only $3,300 per year - while H-1b are typically paid $10k to 20k less per year than comparable Americans. In order to assure that H-1b are only used to fill key positions that require exceptional skills, the "minimum wage" for all H-1b workers should be $100k. Once this flushed out the vast majority of employers who use H-1b for cheap labor, the current cap would never be reached.

Mr. Kim Berry
Programmers Guild
TSRL
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TSRL,
User Rank: Apprentice
9/30/2012 | 9:29:48 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
The talent that Microsoft and other high tech companiesare looking for is here is the US. The thing that MS doesn't want is to pay an American wage for the talent because some Harvard or Princeton trained MBA has them concentrating on the "bottom line" to the exclusion of everything else.

But there might be a fairly simple solution:

Let MS and the rest of the H1B seekers have all of the H1B visas they want. Just one minor stipulation: with each visa comes a full ride scholarship for an American born citizen to a good tech school. That way in 4 years they can begin to replace the H1Bs with home grown talent. If MS were smart they would go on a "hiring" spree at the high school level to populate all of those scholarships then monitor their progress as they made their way through college. They could even give the scholars an internship at the end of their junior year to get the student accustomed to doing things the MS way. When the student graduated, they would be very well prepared to hit the ground running in their MS career.

The "bottom line" would even be pleased since in any job there is anywhere from 6 months to a year and a half "getting started" time when the new hire is not pulling their own weight. That would be effectively eliminated thus getting up to 18 months of full productivity where you would normally have a loss.

Just a thought.
Tronman
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Tronman,
User Rank: Apprentice
10/1/2012 | 12:17:52 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
"If Congress fails to enact immigration reforms, "the jobs could go to other countries," said Smith."

In other words, "immigration reform" means "moving" the other countries here so that the jobs stay here...just not with American workers.
moarsauce123
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moarsauce123,
User Rank: Ninja
10/1/2012 | 1:28:25 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
So what happened to all the ones they fired years ago? Did they all find new jobs or dropped off the earth? Any reasonably smart HR department would call all these folks and ask them if they want to come back. Offer them a sign on bonus and restore their seniority, plus give them a written contract guaranteeing them to stay with Microsoft for at least three years (or even longer). If they found a different job and make more money there then at least match it. Offer relocation assistance if necessary. That should fill a good number of positions with people the company already knows (and of course, don't call those you were happy to see leaving) and at a price point that is sweet for both sides with the result that skilled workers can start in some cases even within a few weeks.
For the rest, hire within and fill the lower end jobs with new folks. Having your existing employees move upwards is very motivating and they already know the inner workings. They may need some training, but that should be a matter of weeks or a few months to get done. While that shifts the issue of open positions only to a different place it is likely much easier to hire for entry level positions than for upper level positions.
So much for my advice...not that anyone from Microsoft HR reads this post.
ewoyce
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ewoyce,
User Rank: Apprentice
10/1/2012 | 3:06:18 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
With all the job posting going on, in what I classify as the volunteer employment market, perhaps Microsoft would reduce the number of job openings by defining a value add propostion that would make Microsoft more attractive from a career prospective. By adopting a more pro-active recruiting approach with a value add propostion that makes sense, many of Microsoft's positions could be filled by top performing individuals from Microsoft's competition.
mnzr
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mnzr,
User Rank: Apprentice
10/1/2012 | 5:20:47 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
They have a shortage of people who will work for $.50 on the dollar.
BobAH
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BobAH,
User Rank: Apprentice
10/1/2012 | 5:24:17 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
As one of those people that Microsoft and alot of other companies says that are not out there, I find their comments rather hilarious, if it was not so depressing. I have been looking for 6 years for a full time position in Networking and PC Support. I have a degree in computer programing and more than 20 years experince in supporting PC's and networks and I enjoy the challange of working with new hardware and software. Do not get me wrong, I have met some highly qualified people that work under the H1B policys because they had some skills that I did not, but do not insult me in saying that there are no qualified people out there so they have go H1B. It is true that the US is losing its edge to other countries but why go into a field that is being outsourced to other countries. One thing that corporate American seems not see is that you lose the competitive edge by outsourcing because it is cheaper in one way, but you lose the support of the people because they see it as not being done in house so it is not cheaper.
pkohler01
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pkohler01,
User Rank: Apprentice
10/1/2012 | 6:28:37 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
Colleges are only producing 40,000 STEM grads per year?! Has that been independently verified? That is a horrifying figure if it's true!
Number 6
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Number 6,
User Rank: Moderator
10/1/2012 | 8:19:43 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
Tell Brad Smith and his friends at Microsoft to read this and then get Dr. Cappelli's book before they start throwing around the "skills gap" fallacy.

http://business.time.com/2012/...
ANON1241882670343
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ANON1241882670343,
User Rank: Apprentice
10/2/2012 | 5:10:27 AM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
I was offered a job at microsoft last year. I turned it down.

One of the reasons for my decision was one of the Indian programmers told me "you don't just hit the publish button to deploy your code. It's a complicated process here." I replied by asking--since cloud is their new strategy--if they use multiple virtual servers to split test different versions of the website. Different versions could be stored on different cloud servers, and changes in the conversion rate tracked. It was a good interview response. But the statement made bothered me.

If I wrote something, it wouldn't get deployed to production easily. He implied that he, and his friends would be an obstacle--even if the boss decided to hire me (which the manager did.)

I suspect that racism among Indians is the true reason for the "shortage" in this economy. The development staff--in a world that includes China, Russia,and Mexico--is 60%-70% Indian. The racism of Indians is the only explanation--India is NOT the highest scoring country in STEM or in any other field.

But Indians are among the most racist people the US imports. They simply refuse to work, or cooperate with anyone who is not Indian.

The result is--once you have a 70% Indian development staff, it must be 100% or nobody gets any work done.

The US has 100 times as many Mensa members as Microsoft employees. That's right--we could fill every member of Microsoft's staff, including the janitor, with a member of Mensa's high-IQ society, 100 times over and still not run out of geniuses.

So, at the right price--which Microsoft is WILLING to pay--geniuses exist in the US market.

The simple, and sad truth, is Indians won't work with qualified Americans--or for that matter, qualified people of any non-Indian nationality.

Indians are SO racist in the workplace that people are scared to talk about it. If you call an Indian racist, you're fired. If you call a white American racist, he asks you to forgive him for whatever he might have done wrong. Indians are known for being so racist that, as a common expression goes "Indians are never racist."

One Indian, whose intelligence I did admire, once told me sarcastically, "OK, so you're smart. I guess I'll just pack my bags and go home." He instead choose to play political games with his coworkers to ensure accomplishing anything would be difficult.

The fact is, H-1B is not nearly diverse enough. There's talented people all over the world. Many of these countries have math scores MUCH higher than India's.

We need to make sure H-1B is diverse enough that there is no chance for racism amongst the immigrants whom we are giving A LOT of power and authority to.

It's as if the Army were to recruit mercenaries to be officers because they're both smart and cheaper. While that decision may be questionable, I sure wouldn't want all the mercenaries to be from the same country. Every mercenary may have a second loyalty, but they shouldn't all agree on what it is.

India is not as diverse a country as the US. Indians have not been taught to be tolerant like the Americans have.

We're going to accept them. The question is, if we turn over the keys to Indians and allow the to "own" an important software development center, will they accept us?

If the answer is no, and we want opportunity for Americans, wouldn't it be better to import a diverse group of Chinese, Mexican, Kenyan, Indian, and Russian programmers? With such a diverse group, wouldn't it be guaranteed the new development team would also tolerate an American or two?

---

Two questions for your non-racist Indian friends:

Are Indians smarter than Americans?

If they are smarter than Americans, are they Americans?

deoks
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deoks,
User Rank: Apprentice
8/12/2013 | 7:00:59 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
Just do a search on Monster or Dice and see how many open positions pop out. I am a manager and know how difficult it is to find candidates who have the skill sets to fill in the experienced programming jobs. I would prefer to hire a citizen or green card holder as it's less immigration headache. Hiring an H1b worker requires additional approvals which most Managers dont want to go through. But unfortunately it's not a eay task to fill out open positions with non-h1b candidates. It's not a cake walk for those working under H1B visa's as you guys make out to be and mind you they are well paid as their american counterparts. Someone who commented earlier turned a Microsoft job ... really? You do know that HR takes racism very seriously and can fire that person if you go through that situation. Isn't your comment a form of racism?. In this economy if you have a citizenship and right skill set it's not a difficult task to find a job.
JamesB171
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50%
JamesB171,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/21/2014 | 3:18:18 PM
re: Microsoft Says 6,000 Jobs Open, Wants More Visas
I have workd for and with many different people of several nationalities. It has been my experience that the Inidan and Chinese are the most difficult to work with. They are very condescending and very dismissive of anything that is not their idea. I have been a manager and have experienced the same people in a situation where I was the boss and their attitudes are very different. Their culturer (Indian and Chinese) gives them a certain indset and they are not willing to be cooperative if they are in the position of power. I am a very open minded individual and this is just my personal experience. There is one thing that really pisses mne off and that is being called racists just because you voi8ce your opinion, ecven when it is based on personal experience. I have worked with people from all over the world and this is just my observation.
bsmith8378
50%
50%
bsmith8378,
User Rank: Apprentice
7/16/2014 | 8:06:58 PM
Not True
I'm a U.S. born PhD.  My ancestors fought in the civil war, world war II and Vietnam.  Yet, I am competing with foreign engineers for jobs.  I think employers prefer them.  They don't flinch when asked to work longer hours for less money. 
fldude
50%
50%
fldude,
User Rank: Apprentice
7/17/2014 | 9:58:11 AM
Microsoft to cut up to 18,000 jobs over next year (USA Today)
Interesting story on Drudge today... http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/07/17/microsoft-job-cuts/12772901/ Microsoft to cut up to 18,000 jobs over next year So why can't they offer training to some of the 18000 they are going to cut instead of hiring 6000 on immigrant visas? I am thinking this is more about the politics than the jobs
JakeL642
100%
0%
JakeL642,
User Rank: Strategist
7/17/2014 | 11:46:50 AM
Applied to Microsoft dozens of times, over my 20 year and very successful career, never heard from them.
The only people I know who have been hired into Microsoft all knew someone on the inside who would sponsor them for an interview.

The other ways (at least in the past) were to be a contractor with a temp agency (easily fired).  People with any intelligence try to get away from agencies as quickly as possible.  So Microsoft's cheap route has poisoned the well for many other Americans.

Basically, in terms of hiring Microsoft basically behaves like the Princeton of the West.  When you throw away 99.99% of the resumes you recieve you cannot expect to be finding anything other than what your employees are sponsoring.

And why do people sponsor other people?  That's easy, it's not about skill, it's about getting more connections into the work environment.   Microsoft, being large, cannot control this. 

Further two factors are likely involved in Microsoft's big H-1b push.

- Microsoft has a huge offshore presence. They'll never admit this, but most position are really never posted in the United States.  What likely happens is that a worker is identified (and this happens thousands of times year) as someone they want to transfer to the United States, and so they are transferred using the H-1b visa.  Again, no attempt is made to look through the 99.99% of resumes that are thrown out, in order to see if a U.S. citizen has the skill first.

- Friends hire other friends.  I have seen instances where an H-1b manager, deliberately hired friend from back home in India and brought them over on an H-1b.  But to them they just saw it as tit-for-tat with their american managerial counterparts.

Microsoft is so large that it is difficult for them to see this occuring.  It doesn't always work this way,  after all there was that one guy, who protested outside of Microsoft headquarters.  Asking why Microsoft was ignoring his resume?

 
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