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No God In The Machine
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anon2606719491
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anon2606719491,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/8/2014 | 12:07:25 PM
Really?
And digital music will never sound as good as analog nor will digital photos ever come close to rivaling film! With all due respect, statements like these seem ludicrous to me. We are not even at beta in our thinking about AI, much farther away still from being able to imagine AI post singularity. What will AI itself say about it's own ability to synthesize human consciousness? Don't know the answer, neither do I. Never say never or history will only remember you with amusement.
Laurianne
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Laurianne,
User Rank: Author
5/8/2014 | 12:42:02 PM
AI Vs. human consciousness
"Under this definition, consciousness behaves like a hash function." Interesting analogy, Tom.
Thomas Claburn
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Thomas Claburn,
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5/8/2014 | 12:54:22 PM
Re: Really?
Comparing the development of digital music fidelity to the advancement of AI doesn't work as an analogy because the difference between analog and digital is well-understood. Not so human consciousness. If Tononi's model is correct -- and there's still debate about that -- then we simply can't model human consciousness on a computer. We may get something functionally similar, but we won't be able to compare AI to the conscious mind because the latter will remain a black box.
Davidoff
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Davidoff,
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5/8/2014 | 1:07:12 PM
Is this good news or bad news?
I can not find anything positive in the creation of Artificial Intellegence. Once we lose control of these machines, man will not be able to fix anything to stop this from continuing onto a critical end.
TerryB
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TerryB,
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5/8/2014 | 1:49:17 PM
Re: Is this good news or bad news?
Nothing good? The credit fraud detection software protecting your Visa card? IBM Watson to help diagnose cancer and other illnesses? There is a long list of these type of apps, none of these are "good" for us?

It's like you think SkyNet is inevitable if we continue down this road. But I will admit that when I read the line in article that said "although we don't fully understand conciousness yet", it put a damper on any conclusions these guys gave.

I think that if AI ever creates self awareness and self preservation in the machine, that's when the science fiction movies begin to look a little more real. Scariest one I have seen is Eagle Eye. Not feasible today but didn't look that far off from possible reality. The computer was not trying to self actualize, like Data in Star Trek Next Generation, but simply survive when it learned it was going to be shut down.
rjones2818
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rjones2818,
User Rank: Strategist
5/8/2014 | 2:08:39 PM
And why exactly should this surprise us?
If AI ends up thinking in a fundamentally diferent manner than humans should we be surprised?  It will  almost certainly have many more sense organs than a human.  It will almost certainly have many more 'brains' involved than a human.  It will almost certainly be 'smarter' (perhaps not at first, but qickly) than a human.

 

Why would AI want to mimic a human?

 
danielcawrey
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danielcawrey,
User Rank: Ninja
5/8/2014 | 3:21:46 PM
Re: Really?
If conciousness is not well understood then I fail to understand how technology will be able to replicate it. Yet. 

But I am convinced we will get to that point. There's no denying it. Will it change the way we think about technology? Probably. I hope its for good, and not the dismal-type scenarios we have seen in movies and on television. 
Thomas Claburn
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Thomas Claburn,
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5/8/2014 | 3:48:46 PM
Re: And why exactly should this surprise us?
>Why would AI want to mimic a human?

Also, why would we want AI to mimic a human? We don't want our software to have doubts, reservations, alternate opinions, or ideas of its own. We want software to be obedient. Code lays down rules with statements like:

if <condition>:

   do this

else:

   do that

 

Imagine what a pain it would be to have software raise its own objections. I don't fear artificial intelligence but I do worry about natural stupidity.
Tony A
IW Pick
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Tony A,
User Rank: Strategist
5/8/2014 | 7:48:05 PM
Interesting Proof of Limited Theorom
Nothing big enough going on here to merit an IW article as far as I can see. Using some very specific definitions of synergy, complexity, information etc. the authors show that on a certain model of mental processing, the information is too tightly integrated to be easily decoupled, and that a strictly computational model of consciousness would require that it could be decoupled in the way they say it can't be. A reasonable result that frankly depends much more on the definitions of concepts than on the mathematical "proof" they offer.

To put their point intuitively, conscious experience is not just more than the sum of the processing of sensory stimuli, it is the tight compression of that processing into a unified experience that cannot be de-unified by applying an algorithm. Thus the authors compare it, both metaphorically and mathematically, to data compression: you cannot, for example, change the word "too" to "also" in a compressed document simply by adding together information about the individual compressed bits and information about the compression algorithm. The reason is that the compression algorithm makes the meaning of each bit dependent on other bits. so that changing the compressed structure will not yield the result you want. I am not convinced beyond a doubt that this is true, but it does make sense when applied to consciousness: you cannot computationally back out the sensory stimuli from conscious experience itself. Part of this might have to do with the redundancy of brain structures, part with the ability of the brain to form new pathways on the fly, etc. In any case, when I look out of my window and experience the belief that I am seeing Brooklyn, I'm quite sure that this cannot be decomposed into the image of the white building, the sycamore tree and the slightly hazy air that I observe.

Like I said, nice result, but the inability to reduce consciousness to information processing has been demonstrated by numerous philosophical thought experiments before (Searle's Chinese Room, Frank Jackson's Mary, Ned Block's idea of connecting the entire Chinese population by telephone simultaneously, etc.) So I'm not sure that this "mathematical" result is big news. But it is always nice to have more evidence that Dan Dennett and his followers are wrong.

 

 

 

 
I give
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I give,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/9/2014 | 9:13:35 AM
Artificial Artifact
Could happen by accident.  The Singularity (to borrow the term from Asimov?) resulting from human devices and designed processes, as has been observed after the fact in many "natural" events, and especially when humans fiddle with the natural world, can be apparently Non-Linear.

Complex Adaptive Emergence, a "natural process" is the mechanism some credit to have brought about life, and perhaps consciousness in living forms.  There are some folks who debate whether humans are the only natural life forms to possess consciousness.  Since we didn't design ourselves, how is it possible we exist?

The discussion is broad.
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