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Our Definitions Of Leadership Are Mostly Wrong
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SaneIT
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SaneIT,
User Rank: Ninja
7/11/2014 | 7:45:26 AM
Re: Words are not enough
I guess every company has their own methods.  I've worked for two very very large companies and turned down a position with another where I had an interview with a panel of IT folks two days after submitting my application.  With those companies I didn't spend much time talking to HR, just one call to verify information answer a few knockout questions and schedule the next interview.  I'm not saying that in some cases having HR more involved in the process is bad, I'm just wondering how a department head feels about filtered results. 
LUFU
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LUFU,
User Rank: Strategist
7/10/2014 | 6:10:09 PM
Re: A Leader Needs Adjectives
@David - This is a bit related to the age-old "nature vs nurture" discourse. I believe that facets of leadership can be taught and can make some people effective leaders or managers. If not, then many of the Executive Leadership-type extension programs offered at the Stanfords, the Whartons, and Harvards would be invalidated. Leaders are not necessarily born that way but may have the inclination that can be honed by experience and training.
David Wagner
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David Wagner,
User Rank: Strategist
7/10/2014 | 1:10:09 PM
Re: Words are not enough
@SaneIT- I don't feel like it is right to say who one of the companies were, but let's just say it was one of the top 5 tech companies in the world. I can't say if it was universal for the whole company or just my potential poistion. I can tell you that while i think the interview went really well, they told me that the hiring folks were split and they wanted HR to give them more people to look at and keep me on the list. I politely passed for another job.

If that is stanadrd at this giant company, clealry it works for them on a macro level. But it definitely didn't work on a microlevel. 
SaneIT
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SaneIT,
User Rank: Ninja
7/10/2014 | 7:21:41 AM
Re: Words are not enough
@David, that sounds horrible.  Even at the biggest companies I've worked for it only took one HR interview, usually over the phone before I met with the hiring manager.  I wonder how the hiring managers feel about having HR only delivering them the "top 3".  I do have HR drop some candidates before they get to me through knockout questions but if they only gave me a top 3 I'd be a bit upset.
David Wagner
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David Wagner,
User Rank: Strategist
7/9/2014 | 3:59:02 PM
Re: A Leader Needs Adjectives
And clearly there are organizaitons who think they can teach leadership and have a track record for doing so-- the military and GE come immediately to mind.
David Wagner
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David Wagner,
User Rank: Strategist
7/9/2014 | 3:58:24 PM
Re: A Leader Needs Adjectives
@lufu- I get that you are being entertaining with your quote. But I think there is a real problem if we settle on that. If that's the way we do it, then we can't teach it. And I believe leadership can be taught. If not literally from the ground up, at least it can be honed. 

If we settle on "we know it when we see it" it becomes much more difficult to teach. And if we can't teach it then we're stuck with the number of leaders we have which is not enough in my opinion. 
David Wagner
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David Wagner,
User Rank: Strategist
7/9/2014 | 3:56:18 PM
Re: Words are not enough
@SaneIT- A fair question, but I've interviewed at organizations where I never met a hiring manager until i was in the last 3 people or so. that seems rather powerful. 
David Wagner
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David Wagner,
User Rank: Strategist
7/9/2014 | 3:55:13 PM
Re: Why are they wrong?
Thanks, Ben. I think you are right, but let me ask you a question about value standards. Do our values come from leaders at work or are they our personal values? Can a leader change my values or am I a fully formed person?

I get, for instance, how a leader can inspire me to be more or less innovative be empowering me and defining what failure means in an organization (less fear of failure usually equals more innovation). 

But i've been in organizations where I felt the leaders was very effective at communicating his desire to run a moral, respectful, collaborative environment where it was clear that value had not been transferred to about a third of the team. 

Was that failure on the leader's part? Was that simply failure on the part of those people not to realize they were in the wrong organization for them? Or are there always going to be people who don't pick up 100% of the values the leader puts out there?
SaneIT
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SaneIT,
User Rank: Ninja
7/9/2014 | 7:11:26 AM
Re: Words are not enough
How much hiring does the HR director really do?  Where does the HR director get their orders from?  I can say for sure that I've never met an HR director that actually did the hiring.  They bring bodies through the door but department managers do the actual hiring.  I haven't met an HR director who drives the professional policies either, all of the ones I've worked with consolidate what other parts of management pass on to them as requirements.
LUFU
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LUFU,
User Rank: Strategist
7/8/2014 | 4:24:28 PM
Re: A Leader Needs Adjectives
Spotting a good leader is somewhat like how a Supreme Court judge (Potter Stewart) commented on obscenity in Jacobellis vs Ohio, "..I know it when I see it."
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