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Too Old To Earn Big In IT?
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Susan_Nunziata
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Susan_Nunziata,
User Rank: Strategist
7/8/2014 | 7:04:15 PM
Re: There's always
@TerryB: apologies if I have confused you. I rarely "police" the chat around my articles however there were some comments being made that didn't do anything to advance the overall discussion here and so I made the decision to remove them. @Rich and I discussed it offline and rest assured we're still friends.

:)

To your greater points, I admire your spirit and you're probably applying the logic that corporations apply in general toward persons-of-a-certain-age. I see it as a slippery slope, though. What age becomes too close to retirement?

In your case, I'd say 10 years is a good long time, why not promote you? How much could others in your organziation learn from you in the years that you choose to continue working? And how do we know when anyone is really close to being done?

I, for one, expect to be working well into my 80s, given the state of my 401K and our national social security outlook...

 
Susan_Nunziata
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Susan_Nunziata,
User Rank: Strategist
7/8/2014 | 6:53:03 PM
Re: Too Old To Earn BIg In IT
@zerox203: The loopholes in the laws do seem quite glaring, and some countries do not limit their age discrimination laws to those over age 40. In general, what I'm seeing is that while we are all agreeing that age discrimination is very real in the workplace, it's rarely cut and dry enough to make it an easy case to prove. And now that we have a Supreme Court eager to recognize corporations as "people" I'm rather alarmed thinking about what the future will hold.
Susan_Nunziata
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Susan_Nunziata,
User Rank: Strategist
7/8/2014 | 6:42:57 PM
Re: Wisdom comes with time
@SusanF: It's a fair question, I don't know much about corporate culture in Japan, although I do wonder given that country's difficult economic times if views on older workers may have changed there as well. Unfortunately, i'm woefully uninformed about it and would love to hear from others in the community on this point.
Susan_Nunziata
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Susan_Nunziata,
User Rank: Strategist
7/8/2014 | 6:26:22 PM
Re: Raise
@mak63: Sorry to hear that you regret the decision. Looking back, what would you say was the obstacle that prevented you from approaching your director about a raise before moving elsewhere?
Susan_Nunziata
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Susan_Nunziata,
User Rank: Strategist
7/8/2014 | 6:24:58 PM
Re: Tw o Comments
@Technocrati: Why is it, do you think, that age discrimination is taken less seriously by HR than other forms of discrimination and harassment in the workplace?
TerryB
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TerryB,
User Rank: Ninja
7/8/2014 | 1:36:05 PM
Re: There's always
I'm confused who @Rich is you are responding to?  Did they pull his comments or something?

One comment about your link of Y2K layoffs and age. That was a time of a huge shift in tech skills, probably the biggest I've seen in my career that started in 1985. Windows, internet and browser applications were changing the game from the green screen midrange/mainframe programming done before that. IT people who did not retool, and I saw many in my travels, were toast. Any older company who made transition to system based on the web technologies, or just Windows development, probably were laying off a lot of IT people older than 40. But not just because of age.

Right or wrong, it makes sense older people coming to new company for technical reasons are not likely to be seen as long term mgmt material. They are too close to retirement to be considered that way.

I'm 56 now. As good as I am in this field (technically), why would anyone want to mess with someone like me so close to being done? I don't see that as age discrimination, just a practical HR decision. Every new job involves learning the business and usually new environment. Makes sense to go thru that with someone who can stick around 20-30 years, not 10 until they retire.
SaneIT
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SaneIT,
User Rank: Ninja
7/8/2014 | 7:29:33 AM
Re: The IDEA field of dreams
@Susan, getting botox before 30 is a bit shocking but I guess in entertainment and marketing I can see where looking like a teenager at 30 would be seen as a benefit.  Years ago I had a handful of friends who all did pharmaceutical sales. They were all incredibly concerned with their appearance, more so than any other group of sales people I've ever met.  For them looking good was the difference between getting in the door to sell and sitting in a waiting room for hours being stalled until they gave up.  Luckily IT isn't an image based industry but there is a feeling that younger workers are more adept to changing technology and are "hungrier".  I think a bit of experience to balance those big thinkers out is a great idea.  Sometimes you need the voice of been there done that to guide the younger workers down the right path and to keep them focused on the goal.
Susan Fourtané
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Susan Fourtané,
User Rank: Ninja
7/8/2014 | 2:37:43 AM
Wisdom comes with time
SusanN, 

 "Do other cultures have more repsect for their elder employees?" 

 
I immediately thought of Japan. Regretfully, I can't contribute with too much about the culture in Japan in this respect. But I believe it's widely known that they respect the wisdom that comes with age very much.
 
They even value old objects more, even if they are broken, instead of quickly discard them and replace them with a new one.
 
For this, I would believe that they probably respect their elder employees more. Maybe someone who has done business with Japanese companies know.
 
-Susan
 

 
zerox203
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zerox203,
User Rank: Ninja
7/8/2014 | 2:17:07 AM
Re: Too Old To Earn BIg In IT
Wow, what a lively conversation - and it's a good thing too, because this is an important topic. Many of the stories and information you guys have shared has confirmed something my gut had already guessed - discrimination laws in the US are woefully inadequate, and the truth is it's a systemic problem that needs to be reworked from the ground up (but probably won't). That story about IBM (and even the followup Susan posted) makes me sick to my stomach. It shows just how broken the system - you can get away with breaking the law, as long as you publicly acknowledge it (!!?!?!), except when you don't, and then it's still okay.

To be honest, the whole idea of the ADEA (based on the wording on the this web page) seems a little misguided to begin with. I totally get the idea of it only applying in one direction, but it seems a little contrary to the goal. Doesn't putting people over 40 in a group by themselves already invite different treatment and problems? And the suggestion that someone who's 50 is not protected as long as he's being discriminated against for someone who's 60 seems like a terrible idea - companies can get away with anything as long as they have loopholes to work with. Not to mention, as we see from DDURBIN1's comments, there are apparently more than just the ones listed here.
danielcawrey
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danielcawrey,
User Rank: Ninja
7/7/2014 | 11:13:44 PM
Re: Age discrimination DOES exist
I think that there are still some mainframe and older technology skills that some organizations still need - but sure, the promotion thing is a bit confounding. I guess that's just part of some organzational culture - some comapnies don't feel the need to promote. It's really hard to explain just why that might be. 
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