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H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
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User Rank: Apprentice
3/4/2013 | 10:02:25 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
more b/s from the companies that want to depress wages. In America, where we have free markets, if you don't want to offer up the going price for a product, then you don't get to buy it. What you don't get to do, is to operate in the United States, and then undercut taxpayers by importing in low/no-skilled job-robbers. If you want to tap into the endless supply of geniuses in india, then do more outsourcing, we have the the inter-web these days, no need to import in the "talent". Stop with the lies and propaganda, H1b is all about depressing wages and getting around labor laws and standards that we've established in this country. All of shit "shortage" crap has been proven to be a big myth, and going down the H1b rabbit hole even more will only cause any existing problems that we might have to get even worse. Now that the economy is getting better, companies want to maintain their margins without sharing in the recovery, and the best way to do that is to import in scab H1b workers. END H1B NOW!!!!
DAVIDINIL
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DAVIDINIL,
User Rank: Strategist
3/4/2013 | 9:53:24 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
My company hires H1-B COBOL programmers. Entry level COBOL programmers. THe H1-B rules stipulate that the foreigner must only be hired if he/she posesses skills that cannot be obtained via an American worker.

America has a glut of COBOL talent that is sitting unemployed. Business will not hire them because they can hire an H1-B for 1/2 the cost.

This practice is just an attempt by business to depress wages. President Obama decries the demise of the middle class. Using H1-B workers is contributing to this demise. The Obama Administration must stand up for the middle class and not wall street.
apiecka
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apiecka,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/4/2013 | 9:52:39 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
It does appear that there is some conflict in what the industry leaders are saying. The video appears to make it look like it's a simple problem to eliminate the perceived shortage of software professionals. All we have to do is start teaching programming in grade school. It is deceptively easy to learn the basics of programming and then project that a person will have a good career and a nice income with practice. If will.i.am can do it, surely we can expect many others can, but I'm sure he wouldn't trade his career for being a programmer. If it's so easy to do this, and all that's needed is to teach it starting in grade school, then that essentially pushes the programming profession to a commodity status, not a place where will.i.am would want to be. It would be more like an assembly line worker and less like a profession. The focus here appears to be that many of these jobs that go unfilled could be filled if we only had enough basic computer programmers to do the jobs.

Perhaps this is the case. Perhaps all these technical jobs that go wanting are the assembly line work of today. But if this were true, then we shouldn't see the experience of Marnie Dunsmore when it comes to hiring. The hiring managers should be very happy to have a person with any sort of reasonable background apply because that person should be able to pick up what's needed quickly. But the hiring experience is very often the opposite. The manager wants a list of skills that are absolutely necessary to fulfill the needs of the position. These are generally not really skills but rather background with specific tools, protocols, or processes. The candidate with the real skills of problem solving, software architecture and planning, design, and logical algorithm development will be eliminated by a resume keyword search, leaving a person like Marnie to wonder what is really important to the hiring manager.

So then which is it? Do we have jobs that can't be filled because the candidates need experience working with specific software related products or standards that are too expensive and time consuming for a company to teach (Marnie's experience), or should we believe that they can't be filled because applicants are unwilling to learn or potential applicants haven't been taught all the needed skills before entering the workforce? Either way the hiring entity shows an unwillingness to invest in a person to assure that the work gets done. I know that for places like Dice, there are counts of applications published for various openings, so the companies are getting responses and there isn't a shortage of applicants. The obvious conclusion then is that the companies are trying to minimize risk and labor cost.
Anna85054
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Anna85054,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/4/2013 | 9:37:01 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
There is a major flaw in the assumption that talent and salary are correlated without the visa status impacting the salary. As an employer the cost for an employee are salary, benefits and (if the worker is a foreigner) legal and visa fees. For a foreign worker to be competitive, he must match talent/skills and cost. Thus the added legal fees are likely to be in indirectly deducted from the pay.
kburgess856
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kburgess856,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/4/2013 | 9:19:47 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Better or smarter workers? Well, they might speak more than one language, but the ONLY reason they're being hired here is because they do anything for less.
Thomas Claburn
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Thomas Claburn,
User Rank: Author
3/4/2013 | 9:04:14 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
The issue is also complicated by lack of transparency with regard to the employment process. From what I hear, requirements to seek a U.S. worker for a position before seeking someone from outside the country are routinely pro forma exercises, done without any real intent to hire a U.S. worker. Intent is difficult to prove however.
SRAUT88
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SRAUT88,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/4/2013 | 8:20:37 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Well if you only look at Microsoft and you only make comparison by pay (isn't lower pay the reason why employers went after H1B in the first place) then this study becomes practically useless. Researchers in UCD just had to look around the CS PhD students (I bet 70% foreign students in any PhD class today in US) to know who really cares for higher education today. Not sure if that's an accurate measure of talent either but still gives a rough idea of where we are. That said, I don't think that's the point...

It shouldn't take a PhD research to know that hiring H1B is just a medium and this is one of the many cards in the game of business called cost reduction. We should argue about the morality of this as much as we have argued about shallow advertising in mainstream media, the 8 years America spent in jail under Bush, outrageous food culture,etc. There's plenty ;)

But...As a consumer, if you want to avoid paying outrageous price for your laptop and keep up with global competition (yes, including laptop price) then we can't help but live with the business decisions that keep the price within our range. As a professional, you should focus on improving your skills today on a global market that is always changing and keep our minds open, hey Sweden is not that bad a place to live ;) As a country, we should stop thinking that we need to be obligated to keep jobs within our countries but come up with ways to keep the workforce current, motivated, and globally aware.
braya
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braya,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/4/2013 | 8:08:10 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
First, I strongly believe that there really IS a shortage in U.S. I.T. talent. It is not just a wage & labor issue.

Second, with the current economy, are companies willing (keyword willing) to pay U.S. talent with high salaries & benefits when they can get a U.S. talent behinf the backs of a team of foreign talents to lead, train & inspect? As I've said CEO's of petitioning companies are not stupid with respect to their stockholders. They will not compromise the quality of their brand, product & service for inferior talent because that will equate to loss.

Third, I seriously think that a FEW of the current U.S. I.T. talents are a bunch of whiners who does not want to get out of their "comfort zones" and face global competition when this co was the primary and pioneering proponent for it.

As I've said, us Americans were enjoying the fruits of offshoring/outsourcing during the heydays of the economy but when it came back to bite us in the ass, the never-ending complaints & whining just never stopped like the housing bubble and healthcare jobs.

The real lesson here is GREED.
ekwang917
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ekwang917,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/4/2013 | 8:00:26 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
I don't think there's a easy measurement available to determine if a foreign worker is talented or not. From what I read here, this study tries to use salary to determine if the foreign workers are more talented than their US counter part. This is not a fair comparison. Despite Federal law tries to prevent foreign workers from being exploited, the foreign workers on H1-B visa tend to get lower salary because they are on H1-B visa. It is also less likely for the foreign workers be promoted and moved to a managerial position due to communication barrier. Therefore, you can't just use salary as a basis to draw the conclusion on "talent" in this case.
Tronist
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Tronist,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/4/2013 | 6:09:05 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
My company started replacing our in-house tech support folks a few years ago. It now takes several foreign workers a week to do what it used to take one person 15 minutes, or at most one workday, to do. So...where are the savings? This is the kind of information that middle managers seem to like to keep from upper management.
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