Comments
H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Newest First  |  Oldest First  |  Threaded View
<<   <   Page 4 / 8   >   >>
Indian_H1B
50%
50%
Indian_H1B,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/6/2013 | 5:23:46 AM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Almost made it to 3 days of relatively intelligent debate until Wakjob showed up. All down-hill from here.

I used to regard Matloff as a smart, sensible voice in the anti-H1B pool. The utter lack of scientific method in this study makes him look quite shabby. Half of all H-1Bs are absolutely not needed by the US. They work for Indian outsourcing firms and simply displace American workers. Matloff leaves this low hanging fruit alone and goes after guys getting a graduate degree from the better US schools (including a half dozen U of C campuses that are all better engineering programs than Davis).
Andrew Hornback
50%
50%
Andrew Hornback,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/6/2013 | 3:40:36 AM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Wow, this article really brought the folks out. :)

One of the themes running through a lot of these posts and the article itself is the lack of interest in STEM education in the US. Why is that, exactly? I think it's a lack of a challenge/dream/vision and the lack of stability.

So, what do I mean by lack of a challenge? Well, in the 60s (not that I was there), we had the space race and the challenge of sending a man to the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth. Where is the 2010s space race? Where is our challenge of getting to the moon? There isn't one... that's a problem since there's no cause to rally around behind.

As far as the lack of stability goes, my personal career over the last decade can attest to that. I'm currently working on my 5th merger/acquisition in 5 years. What happens during mergers and acquisitions? Companies unite and they divide... People lose jobs because they suddenly become redundant to the new organization - sad fact of life, but it's absolutely true.

When it comes to hiring non-US nationals for positions - while I haven't participated in hiring anyone here in the US, I have managed or participated in the hiring of personnel for overseas sites. Something that I've noticed is that a good number of overseas candidates tend to pad their resume in order to get their foot in the door, but when asked about such things in the interview process, they're absolutely clueless. Example - if I need someone that has 5 years of experience with SAN and other storage technologies, and a candidate puts on their resume that they have such, I fully expect them to be able to tell me (in detail) the differences between RAID 0, RAID 1 and RAID 5. Just because you fill your resume with enough words to convince the local HR folks into thinking that you're a good candidate for a position doesn't mean that you actually have the skills or would be a good fit for the organization.

As to the issue of on-the-job training, the hiring organization in the article sounds clueless. To expect an employee to hit the ground running without the slightest bit of organizational orientation or training is absurd. Personally, I've always held to the notion that if I bring someone in, I'm going to spend some time showing them my processes and learning how they work while they learn how I work.

All that said, I've worked with some non-US nationals that were quite good at what they do - and worked with some that I wonder how they ever found their way to the airport to board a plane to come to the US. Flipside is that I've worked with some US nationals that were absolutely top of the industry and some that really should have stuck with underwater basket weaving.

Andrew Hornback
InformationWeek Contributor
Your Mom!
50%
50%
Your Mom!,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/6/2013 | 1:34:21 AM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Sorry buddy I call BS. Several issues with your real "shortage" argument.
1. They are letting qualified people go so they can hire "Qualified" offshore workers? The bottom line is that the big companies basically don't want to retain workers at that wage any longer. Some cases I can understand if the company is going through economic hardships, but most of the time it's purely out of trying to cut overhead, which is mostly what IT is considered by the majority of CEO/CFO's.
2. The countries that the IT jobs are outsourced are third world countries. This hardly makes any kind of sense, if these countries were any good to begin with, they have first world leadership, at least in IT if nothing else. These countries don't really produce any world class software. When is the last time that you're heard of an international start-up like twitter or facebook? Anyone, anyone?
3. Most of these third world countries, the educational systems are jokes. I am not talking about people who come here for a college education, but the higher educational systems in that third world country. Tons of people with Phd's but haven't really learned anything. A lot of these people have paid off the teachers and the schools to pass classes and get degrees. Not trying to sound negative, but that's the way it is. Google it and learn the facts.
4. I have years of first hand experience with offshoring and I can tell you that the offshore people are not nearly as good as Americans. The companies that hire them don't even take the time to even try and train them in the products or mentor them so they can improve.
5. Has your customer service for your PC improved with offshoring!
6. Just so people don't think I am a racist. People in these countries are awesome and giving a chance at a proper education and mentoring could at least equal tech in America, yeah I know some already do.
MWEGMAN000
50%
50%
MWEGMAN000,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/5/2013 | 11:42:53 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Here is one that you don't have... RBS banking meltdown http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...
Whew I bet that cost them.
Number 6
50%
50%
Number 6,
User Rank: Moderator
3/5/2013 | 7:46:01 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Marnie Dunsmore is 100% supported by Dr. Peter Cappelli's book, "Why Good People Can't Get Jobs: The Skills Gap and What Companies Can Do About It". Most companies have cut far back on training budgets and expect all new hires to be completely productive when hired.
wanderson
50%
50%
wanderson,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/5/2013 | 5:44:43 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
What is just as ridiculous as the ruse perpetuated by Microsoft and other technology companies against hiring "qualified" and professional American technologists in favour of cheap foreign labour is that millions of Americans - to this day - hold Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer in high regard and are greatly respected. (sic)

It appears that if one is a very "wealthy American" then they can do little wrong and are to be admired. (double sic)
John80224
50%
50%
John80224,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/5/2013 | 4:41:58 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Agreed that a key issue is lack of a real way to measure. While salary is the most reaction-grabbing facet, the study does also take into account patents and PhD dissertation awards, but yes, those too are challenging to claim as perfect indicators.

However, for what I suspect might be the underlying reason for the report, salary is a wonderful metric. The conclusion reached (or yes, I'll admit likely sought and now supported) is that despite prevailing wage rules, anti-discrimination laws, constant pleas that immigration is a tool for attracting the "best and brightest" and repeated regurgitations of things like Microsoft leaving a great deal of $100K jobs open, companies are not indeed paying for such talent or they are getting it and severely underpaying it. The conclusion I draw is what I've suspected all along. We're getting reasonably bright, reasonably skilled role-players who are roughly as talented as their native-born peers. They are largely good people who are dedicated and capable, but not inerently superior to their native-born counterparts.
John80224
50%
50%
John80224,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/5/2013 | 4:23:41 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
If my recollection is correct, there is no such flaw. The fees/costs are supposed to be separate from the compensation and not passed onto the employee in any fashion. Omitting such costs is akin to omitting the cost of the chair in which that employee sits.
John80224
50%
50%
John80224,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/5/2013 | 3:40:35 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Fair enough, I've ranted on bias in the opposite direction. I'd find it hard to believe though that Vivek Wadhwa and Stuart Anderson are any less biased and or funded. And I'll grant individual anecdotes don't prove the overall situation--more just add color to the story. Just seems to be how articles are done.

As to recouping the investment, why not just stop subsidizing?

As to stay and training the six years of an H-1b is a pretty long time. Just how much training are they getting? It's peculiar that it's okay to invest a great deal in training them but not in training native-born citizens.

And finally as one of the cast offs you're leaving on the shore to drown, I personally have a hard time with the rising tide floating all boats.
Wakjob2
50%
50%
Wakjob2,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/5/2013 | 2:43:08 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
"I have to pay my people enough to enable them to buy my product"
-- Henry Ford
<<   <   Page 4 / 8   >   >>


Register for InformationWeek Newsletters
White Papers
Current Issue
InformationWeek Tech Digest, Dec. 9, 2014
Apps will make or break the tablet as a work device, but don't shortchange critical factors related to hardware, security, peripherals, and integration.
Video
Slideshows
Twitter Feed
InformationWeek Radio
Sponsored Live Streaming Video
Everything You've Been Told About Mobility Is Wrong
Attend this video symposium with Sean Wisdom, Global Director of Mobility Solutions, and learn about how you can harness powerful new products to mobilize your business potential.