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H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
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twins.fan
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twins.fan,
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3/9/2013 | 10:57:51 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
There is no shortage of US STEM workers. The H-1B visa is being used to reduce labor costs, creating hundreds of thousands of disenfranchised US STEM workers.

Victims of injustice speak up and fight back in America. Learn to live with it!
Not.Disgruntled
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Not.Disgruntled,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/9/2013 | 5:17:28 AM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."
braya
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braya,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/8/2013 | 4:40:01 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
LetG«÷s be realistic folks.. In the real world, there is no longer such no such thing as G«£For AmericaG«•. It is G«£For the money.G«•, suits, wallstreet, globalization. The Geek just became like Gordon Gekko. Hey, I am just being a realist. Who invented this by the way? I thought soG«™

If you are still hopeful, then good for you but let me tell you, itG«÷s going to be a steep climb to Everest. Going against the tide of money is just like trying to go through a brick wall. Good Luck on that!

In the meantime, stop the whining and do something for yourselves be it in I.T. or in other fields because the angst and whining is a total giveaway for hang ups & frustrations.

It is America Inc. period, learn to live with it!
braya
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braya,
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3/7/2013 | 7:20:58 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
if you mean by 3rd world countries is Asia. let me remind you that Japan & Korea, kicked U.S. butt in other fields of technology and invented state of the art, cutting edge technology on their own from cars to gadgets without any word of english in production.

enough said.
braya
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braya,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/7/2013 | 7:16:52 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
that's right! however, when you guys came up with a product or concept the suits played in wallstreet and found ways & means to profit more. enter, outsourcing/offshoring.

who stands to gain? the suits with higher profits & the consumers with cheaper products and services. maybe, inferior but it works and what the consumers don't know won't kill them. at the end of the day it is business as usual and capitalism wins. so what are we really discussing or whining about?

what the suits did was to get the best & the brightest among you to babysit 3rd world programmers.
braya
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braya,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/7/2013 | 7:12:17 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
it's career mismatch. supply & demand.

currently how much I.T. talents are there? how much is the need? how many I.T. grads annually?

figures please..
Not.Disgruntled
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Not.Disgruntled,
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3/6/2013 | 8:39:54 PM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Hi Andrew,

There are still plenty of Americans who are interested in science and engineering. There may not be the space race, but there are certainly pressing and interesting technological and scientific problems to be addressed. Plenty of Americans are pressing through to PhDs. Plenty of Americans are continuing to try to hang onto their engineering jobs. They continue to update their skills, usually on their own dime. There is still a *love* of science and engineering in this country.

I'm sitting here today working on trying to get figure out the details of the latest low cost chip synthesis design flow. It's not glamorous. I was always happy to take on those unglamorous jobs. I'm more than willing to spend hours late into the night debugging a hot bug. I've been through the ups and downs of at least five startups. My husband too has been through the ups and downs of more than five startups. We both have advanced degrees from very good engineering schools.

The story I recounted above not only happened, the words "we don't do on-the-job training" were exactly what this person said. Yet, he had seen on my CV that I did not have ic *tester* experience. It did say on my CV that I had extensive high frequency *lab* test experience, high frequency ic *design* experience and extensive programming experience, yet this guy actually had the gall to tell me, as if I was some kind of SV newbie, that "we don't do on the job training."

This is not a "one off" experience. In talking with other engineers, the ball is in the hiring managers court. More often than not, they don't want to hire, or they are sitting on hundreds of resumes.

That's the reality of the Silicon Valley and Washington State H-1B saturated job market.

It's not as if people such as myself don't have options. I myself could easily apply to law school or go to work at a government labs outside California (where they are always seeking people with my skills).

Yet, it pains me when I hear industry leaders complain about a STEM professional shortage.

Even more ridiculous is to hear Zuckerberg or Gates tell the American public that there is a shortage of "programmers".

We don't have a programmer or STEM professional shortage. What we have is a STEM surplus due to an oversupply of L-1 and H-1B visas.

We have a lack of investment in R&D.

We have a lack of regulatory protection of our industries.

We have an increasing loss of jobs and manufacturing expertise due to excessive offshoring.

Sadly, it also appears that we have a lack of political leadership to safeguard the future economy of this country.
Indian_H1B
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Indian_H1B,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/6/2013 | 5:23:46 AM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Almost made it to 3 days of relatively intelligent debate until Wakjob showed up. All down-hill from here.

I used to regard Matloff as a smart, sensible voice in the anti-H1B pool. The utter lack of scientific method in this study makes him look quite shabby. Half of all H-1Bs are absolutely not needed by the US. They work for Indian outsourcing firms and simply displace American workers. Matloff leaves this low hanging fruit alone and goes after guys getting a graduate degree from the better US schools (including a half dozen U of C campuses that are all better engineering programs than Davis).
Andrew Hornback
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Andrew Hornback,
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3/6/2013 | 3:40:36 AM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Wow, this article really brought the folks out. :)

One of the themes running through a lot of these posts and the article itself is the lack of interest in STEM education in the US. Why is that, exactly? I think it's a lack of a challenge/dream/vision and the lack of stability.

So, what do I mean by lack of a challenge? Well, in the 60s (not that I was there), we had the space race and the challenge of sending a man to the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth. Where is the 2010s space race? Where is our challenge of getting to the moon? There isn't one... that's a problem since there's no cause to rally around behind.

As far as the lack of stability goes, my personal career over the last decade can attest to that. I'm currently working on my 5th merger/acquisition in 5 years. What happens during mergers and acquisitions? Companies unite and they divide... People lose jobs because they suddenly become redundant to the new organization - sad fact of life, but it's absolutely true.

When it comes to hiring non-US nationals for positions - while I haven't participated in hiring anyone here in the US, I have managed or participated in the hiring of personnel for overseas sites. Something that I've noticed is that a good number of overseas candidates tend to pad their resume in order to get their foot in the door, but when asked about such things in the interview process, they're absolutely clueless. Example - if I need someone that has 5 years of experience with SAN and other storage technologies, and a candidate puts on their resume that they have such, I fully expect them to be able to tell me (in detail) the differences between RAID 0, RAID 1 and RAID 5. Just because you fill your resume with enough words to convince the local HR folks into thinking that you're a good candidate for a position doesn't mean that you actually have the skills or would be a good fit for the organization.

As to the issue of on-the-job training, the hiring organization in the article sounds clueless. To expect an employee to hit the ground running without the slightest bit of organizational orientation or training is absurd. Personally, I've always held to the notion that if I bring someone in, I'm going to spend some time showing them my processes and learning how they work while they learn how I work.

All that said, I've worked with some non-US nationals that were quite good at what they do - and worked with some that I wonder how they ever found their way to the airport to board a plane to come to the US. Flipside is that I've worked with some US nationals that were absolutely top of the industry and some that really should have stuck with underwater basket weaving.

Andrew Hornback
InformationWeek Contributor
Your Mom!
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Your Mom!,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/6/2013 | 1:34:21 AM
re: H-1B Workers Not Best Or Brightest, Study Says
Sorry buddy I call BS. Several issues with your real "shortage" argument.
1. They are letting qualified people go so they can hire "Qualified" offshore workers? The bottom line is that the big companies basically don't want to retain workers at that wage any longer. Some cases I can understand if the company is going through economic hardships, but most of the time it's purely out of trying to cut overhead, which is mostly what IT is considered by the majority of CEO/CFO's.
2. The countries that the IT jobs are outsourced are third world countries. This hardly makes any kind of sense, if these countries were any good to begin with, they have first world leadership, at least in IT if nothing else. These countries don't really produce any world class software. When is the last time that you're heard of an international start-up like twitter or facebook? Anyone, anyone?
3. Most of these third world countries, the educational systems are jokes. I am not talking about people who come here for a college education, but the higher educational systems in that third world country. Tons of people with Phd's but haven't really learned anything. A lot of these people have paid off the teachers and the schools to pass classes and get degrees. Not trying to sound negative, but that's the way it is. Google it and learn the facts.
4. I have years of first hand experience with offshoring and I can tell you that the offshore people are not nearly as good as Americans. The companies that hire them don't even take the time to even try and train them in the products or mentor them so they can improve.
5. Has your customer service for your PC improved with offshoring!
6. Just so people don't think I am a racist. People in these countries are awesome and giving a chance at a proper education and mentoring could at least equal tech in America, yeah I know some already do.
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