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ATF's Gun Tracing System Is A Dud
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John Foley
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John Foley,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/20/2013 | 12:31:01 PM
re: ATF's Gun Tracing System Is A Dud
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I simply can't condone the idea of relying on broken systems and processes to support a top-priority national policy where "risk management" involves personal safety and homeland security. With such great tech companies and so many innovative technologists here in the US, we should have world-class gun tracing systems and processes. No excuses.
TSRL
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TSRL,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/19/2013 | 9:12:33 PM
re: ATF's Gun Tracing System Is A Dud
Another quick thought. Many gun enthusiasts compare gun ownership to auto ownership.

Why is is possible for me to trace the history of an automobile (or an airplane for that matter) back to the day it was manufactured, but not do the same for a gun? Seems only fair that, since both are potentially lethal in the hands of the wrong person, they should be treated the same.
TSRL
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TSRL,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/19/2013 | 9:08:29 PM
re: ATF's Gun Tracing System Is A Dud
We recently tried to open a new bank account to deposit the monies from a house sale. It has already taken over a week and the account is still "under review" (new Federal guidlines I'm told).

But, it appears that I will only need to wait a maximum of 3 days by law to get my hands on a lethal weapon.

Does that suggest the rather screwed up state of this country?

For starters we don't have to spend my tax dollars to modernize the ATF system. Just let the person wanting to buy the gun wait a bit longer (at least two weeks or more). Give them time to reflect on the reason for the purchase. That shouldn't require any serious change in a law.
sdsorrentino
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sdsorrentino,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/19/2013 | 1:33:51 AM
re: ATF's Gun Tracing System Is A Dud
It's not a bug, it's a feature. We don't want the government to have the data. There's no reason for them to have the data. What data they do have should be impossible to use as a registry.

If you think the argument about "Assault Weapons" is bad, suggest a national firearms registry. The ATF building with these records would have to be guarded like Ft. Knox or it would get burned down by an angry mob.
IkeK
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IkeK,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/15/2013 | 8:24:41 PM
re: ATF's Gun Tracing System Is A Dud
If ATF's system is so antiquated, they why are they requiring (since 2008) that firearms dealers provide a digital ASCII file of their Out-of-Business records? Doesn't sound like microfiche to me.... Sounds a lot more like a digital system of registration.

"13. Upon termination of a license, the FFL must provide an American Standard Code for Information Interchange (ASCII) text file (in conformity with industry standards) and a file description, in addition to printouts of all records, to the ATF Out-of-Business Records Center. The printout and ASCII text file must contain the information as prescribed by regulation. All records must be forwarded to the ATF Out-of-Business Records Center in accordance with 27 CFR 478.127, including complete printouts, and ASCII text file (and file description) of the A&D records, and all ATF Forms 4473."
John Foley
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John Foley,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/15/2013 | 5:47:48 PM
re: ATF's Gun Tracing System Is A Dud
The Firearms Tracing System as it exists isn't much of a system (microfiche is offline storage), which is why I used quote marks around the term in my column. Better to call it the Firearms Tracing Process. I'm not convinced that ATF is outside the scope of the law with its current approach, but I have no doubt there's room for interpretation. Maybe the answer, for those of us who want current federal policy and law properly implemented, is develop better real-time processes that are tech-enabled out on the edges. The records would remain with the gun sellers (federal firearms licensees) until required as part of a criminal investigation, at which point digitization and automation would streamline information sharing. At the same time, microfiche would be upgraded to a newer platform with better search capabilities. As I said in an earlier comment, there should be a better way of doing this while staying within the law.
IkeK
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IkeK,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/15/2013 | 3:14:26 PM
re: ATF's Gun Tracing System Is A Dud
ATF is already in violation of the Firearm Owners Protection Act, but profess that any system of records begun prior to enactment in 1986 are exempt from the law.... Note that the law does not exempt paper nor microfilm registration records. It specifically prohibits "any system of registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearms transactions or disposition". The ATF Firearms Tracing System is precisely such a registration system prohibited by law.


"No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation."

Nevertheless, the ATF Firearms Tracing System (FTS) contains hundreds of millions of firearm tracing and registration records, and consists of several databases:

1. Multiple Sale Reports. Over 460,000 (2003) Multiple Sales reports (ATF F 3310.4 - a registration record with specific firearms and owner name and address - increasing by about 140,000 per year). Reported as 4.2 million records in 2010.

2. Suspect Guns. All guns "suspected" of being used for criminal purposes but not recovered by law enforcement. This database includes (ATF's own examples), individuals purchasing large quantities of firearms, and dealers with improper record keeping. May include guns observed by law enforcement in an estate, or at a gun show, or elsewhere. Reported as 34,807 in 2010.

3. Traced Guns. Over 4 million detail records from all traces since inception.This is a registration record which includes the personal information of the first retail purchaser, along with the identity of the selling dealer.

4. Out of Business Records. Data is manually collected from paper Out-of-Business records (or input from computer records) and entered into the trace system by ATF. These are registration records which include name and address, make, model, serial and caliber of the firearm(s), as well as data from the 4473 form - in digital or image format. In March, 2010, ATF reported receiving several hundred million records since 1968.

5. Theft Guns. Firearms reported as stolen to ATF. Contained 330,000 records in 2010. Contains only thefts from licensed dealers and interstate carriers (optional). Does not have an interface to the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) theft data base, where the majority of stolen, lost and missing firearms are reported.
kburgess856
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kburgess856,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/15/2013 | 1:46:14 AM
re: ATF's Gun Tracing System Is A Dud
You are correct Phoebe, and frankly no government agency has the money or they're just too lazy to bother trying something dangerous, crazy, and costly like confiscation.

Unless you are an enemy of the State, mentally unstable, or convicted and serving time or on probation for a crime you need not fear confiscation.

Believe me, if 12 million people can reside & work here illegally, no reasonable government will bother law abiding citizens who own firearms.

That will be true, even IF Congress changes laws and government budgeting to allow such a database to even be created.
kburgess856
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kburgess856,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/15/2013 | 1:34:34 AM
re: ATF's Gun Tracing System Is A Dud
You are correct except on one minor point, which is a major issue: the laws SHOULD be changed.
The ability to track, as well as form a permanent registry is the only effective way to properly regulate the business of death.
Frankly if we can do it, and ensure insurance and other minimum safety requirements for cars, trains, busses, and airplanes which 'might' be dangerour or even deadly, as a matter of national security & public safety, then we SHOULD be able to do so for weapons whose sole purpose is to injure or kill.
Not only that, but it will provide a wealth of currently lost revenue.

Remember that the 2nd Amendment specifies "A well regulated militia"
kburgess856
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kburgess856,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/15/2013 | 1:29:10 AM
re: ATF's Gun Tracing System Is A Dud
In 1999 and 2000 UNISYS pitched a database to the ATF to replace the obsolescent software. We were resoundingly rejected, based upon the admission that Congress was no longer adequately supporting the ATF. We thought that odd, as ATF falls under Department of Treasury jurisdiction. Treas. is the umbrella that also covers the IRS & Secret Service, supposedly teflon budgets so we were greatly surprised.
Consequently Unisys dropped that entire contract, and the Bureau chief was converted to a Temporary position...
NRA lobbyists have anything to do with this? You be the judge.
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