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PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
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Anonomouser
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Anonomouser,
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4/11/2013 | 3:55:54 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
The hardware or screen size isn't the problem. The problems are the price point, the Windows 8 UI design, and the attitude that Microsoft has towards their customers. Unfortunately for everyone, all we can expect from Microsoft is more more advertising for Win8 as they continue to believe that customers will "get used to it" and start buying like they were a decade ago when Windows XP, which was possibly the most productive desktop in history, was in it's heyday.
dfoulger
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dfoulger,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/11/2013 | 4:01:49 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
If Microsoft really wants to fix the problem, they might start by creating a sane user interface for Windows 8 The current interface is a good reason to buy a different machine (tablet, desktop, or phone.
remmeler
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remmeler,
User Rank: Strategist
4/11/2013 | 4:49:33 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
From my standpoint as a longtime Windows user that uses traditional Windows programs and does not have a smartphone or tablet or use Social Networking, the apps in the Microsoft Store are the problem.

I think from a notebook standpoint the Surface is a good looking system but, the RT won't run traditional programs and the Pro is much too expensive.

Maybe if there were some killer RT apps, that could be a separate path, but I don't think there is a killer app. Also, I have heard that when used in portrait mode as a tablet, using applications become awkward. So it is not great as a tablet.

I have played with many of the apps in the app store without thinking whether I needed touch or not, it just didn't cross my mind. As it turned out, the reason it didn't cross my mind is because my trackball seemed to work just fine and I just didn't think about it.

Windows 8 itself is fine. I have been using it side by side with a Windows 7 system for about 6 months. It actually brought an old XP system of mine back from the Dead. Contrary to the belief of some haters, you can easily bypass all the things they hate about the Modern/Metro front end.

1. You can easily bypass the front end on start up by loading a Desktop program automatically, I use StickyNotes or you could also create a task using task scheduler (google it for step by step instructions.

2. You can solve the problem of clicking on a picture and being yanked out of Desktop and sent to the Modern screen to view it by just opening Control Panel and making the included Windows picture Viewer the default program or downloading your own old favorite.

3. You can easily live without a start button by just remembering how to do three simple things.
Mouse to the Left bottom Corner for the Start Icon with most of your start button items. Click on the Folder on the quick program part of the task bar and bring up File Explorer for the other items like documents, Music, Pictures, Videos, Computer, Disks, Network, etc.

4. Ctl, Alt, Del to get the power icon to turn off or press the off switch (yes, it is now ok) or mouse to the right lower corner and click on settings and then the power Icon.

Did it ever make sense to press Start to Shut Down?

So far nothing has required downloading any third party program or if you want you could download Classic Shell and get your start button back.
bg
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bg,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/11/2013 | 6:26:51 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
Good points. The availability of apps always drives the need for the platform/os. The os/platform is part of a tool. I believe that the cost of apps is fueling the explosion of smartphones / tablets. Anyone ever try to buy a Windows app for $2. They are either free or $35 and up.
Regarding your instructions on navigating the W8 UI, #3, you say " remember three simple things" . I only saw two listed before point #4? Its meaningful to me as I have struggled with the W8 UI and am more frustrated than enthusiastic. Thanks
remmeler
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remmeler,
User Rank: Strategist
4/11/2013 | 7:29:32 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
Sorry the third thing was listed on the next line. It was choosing one of three ways to shut down your system
Ctl, Alt, Del,
Press the off button
mouse over to the right bottom corner and click on settings
deanmike
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deanmike,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/11/2013 | 8:15:59 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
I looked at that Classic menu thing and I am impressed although skeptical that it will be a good long term solution. I hate pinning my hopes on a third party utility that is not guaranteed to ever cause a compatibility problem or just cease to exist.

Two things would improve the Win8 situation-

1. Leave the legacy manu as an option for people who want it instead of forcing a new UI on everyone, especially a UI which benefits from a touch screen in a world where touch screens are not quite an option yet due to cost, availability or the "leap of faith" you have to make with such an investment of new technology. A plain old touch screen will not work with Win8-you need a very expensive touch screen

2. Let us go back to command line usage. I think they are actually somewhat embracing this with Powershell.

What many businesses realize is that there is quite a learning curve for users to go "all in" with windows 8, even assuming that all of your apps will run in the new OS. However, you will need more helpdesk staff as most people today are used to the legacy XP style start menu. From what I am hearing, they are going further down the wrong road with the Windows 8 successor, too. Bad news if true.....

Maybe Start-->shutdown doesn't make sense logically but who isn't used to that today? Besides, that went away in Windows 7 (or maybe Vista) when it was replaced with an icon instead of a button with the word "start"

I never thought I would be doing it but I am typing from a mac right now. Never dreamed I would be in the OSX camp but I am. I use linux too but am still a newb there. I still need windows to manage VMWare and a few other things but OSX is much better than Win8 and it is worth the headache of a transition
jfrey191
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jfrey191,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/11/2013 | 6:09:34 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
The PC consumer market is dead. Consumers are not loading up their homes with PCs, they're shedding them. Microsoft's opportunity here is to split between consumers and businesses with separate but equal/similar product lines. If they don't recognize that they and PC manufacturers are doomed.
remmeler
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remmeler,
User Rank: Strategist
4/11/2013 | 7:42:12 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
I agree most people don't use any of the capabilities of a computer and are in fact confused with anything beyond the one or two things that they do that can now be done on any device.

I get calls from people who have used a computer for years on how to open an attachment in an email or some other simple thing.
deanmike
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deanmike,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/11/2013 | 9:01:00 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
Wrong. Windows 8 stifled the market
moonwatcher
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moonwatcher,
User Rank: Strategist
4/11/2013 | 6:34:04 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
I'm not a Microsoft "hater". In fact, I've been using PCs since the DOS days and have watched Windows mature. The problem is that from a desktop standpoint it matured just fine in XP and especially in Windows 7. Shoehorning a UI that is designed for tablets and phones into a desktop OS and then forcing it down people's throats is not a way to endear yourself or your product to people's hearts.

If they had given options for simply booting to a Windows 7 desktop but having the Modern UI available then maybe people would have "discovered" it by word of mouth or been intrigued by it and felt "cool" for experimenting with it - and perhaps created a buzz in the marketplace. But the way MS rolled out Windows 8 made it needlessly hard for the average consumer to deal with. I had numerous relatives and friends who were got new lap tops and PCs for Christmas and were very frustrated. They merely wanted to set them up and use them, not have to spend hours learning a new UI that proved useless to them. It's like getting a shiny new car, but then none of the controls work the same as you've been used to for many years...frustration city. If you have a full blown PC or lap top at your disposal, why pray tell would you want to use some lame app when you could easily go to the web and use the full blown site? (Like Facebook for instance).

I'm afraid playing catch up in smartphone and tablet devices is simply too little too late for Microsoft. Consumers seem pretty happy with two choices...Apple or Android. Having too many choices just confuses people (and the fact that most people aren't going to spend hours researching and comparing them.)
remmeler
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remmeler,
User Rank: Strategist
4/11/2013 | 7:40:07 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
I kind of look at it differently. I think they bolted on the Modern/Metro interface on an improved Windows 7 and wanted people to see it first because they wanted people that were not Windows savvy and just wanted to run apps.

Windows savvy people should have been able to figure it out, see my comment above or any of my comments throughout for simple ways to not see the front end.
deanmike
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deanmike,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/11/2013 | 8:18:03 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
It is not possible to get rid of Metro completely or full time. It keeps coming back, and it is annoying to keep having to beat it back down
bwdolphan
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bwdolphan,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/11/2013 | 7:11:46 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
The problem lies 100% at Microsoft's feet. I bought my wife a new laptop with 8 on it. Massive mistake - I should have looked for a used one with 7 on it. Even after adding classic shell, it remains a pain in the keyster.

I have to buy several for the office and will not touch a PC with 8 on it until they realize that it needs to have a 7-like option.

Time to admit the mistake, ditch the new Coke, and bring back the Classic Coke.

As Bob O'Donnell says: "At this point, unfortunately, it seems clear that the Windows 8 launch not only failed to provide a positive boost to the PC market, but appears to have slowed the market,"
remmeler
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remmeler,
User Rank: Strategist
4/11/2013 | 7:37:01 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
You will completely bypass the front end if you:
1. create a task using task scheduler. Step by step directions here:
http://www.techrepublic.com/bl...
or
Load a Desktop program automatically at start up, I happen to use StickyNotes.

2. Open Control panel and make Microsoft Windows Picture Viewer the default picture viewer or use any other one you like.

I run a Windows 7 and 8 system side by side with the same programs and I never see the Modern/metro front end unless I want to by pressing the M/S key.
UberGoober
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UberGoober,
User Rank: Strategist
4/11/2013 | 8:36:26 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
And you don't see this as stupidly hard?

At this point, Micro$oft is not even a little interested in making users happy; if they were, 'don't call it Metro' would have been optional and the Start button would still be happily ensconced in the lower left corner if you wanted it. They want to force you to buy the new version by making sufficiently different from the previous versions that you'll give up on the old one sooner rather than later.

They know that the consumer market is a huge part of computing, and if they can't horn in on the iPhone and iPad and Android, they'll get left behind. And of course they want to get in on the app business model that Apple and Google have with their stores. They've made a decision that user dissatisfaction is worth it if they can force their way into a market they are currently failing at.

Resistance, in this case, is NOT futile. Don't submit to Win8!
Majo
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Majo,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/11/2013 | 8:25:01 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
The 'ribbon' in MS Office products is also a big mistake. With Office 2003 I want to see more of the workspace. The 'ribbon' reduces that space even more, and is not as intuitive as the 'old' menu system was. MS Access is also going to the dogs; Microsoft keeps chipping away functionality in the name of progress.
AsokAsus
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AsokAsus,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/12/2013 | 1:41:08 AM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
There's plenty of commercial PCs available with Windows 7 as the default OS; in fact, almost ALL biz class PCs come this way because the enterprise and SMB refuses to adopt Windows 8.

The Dell biz-class Latitude E5x30 and E6x30 laptops and Optiplex 7010 are excellent PCs for business or home use. They're a bit pricier than Dell's consumer-level junk, but they are better built and will last longer.
deanmike
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deanmike,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/15/2013 | 2:18:31 AM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
For now...but we had to swallow the XP End Of Life eventually too
Majo
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Majo,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/11/2013 | 7:57:19 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
I can't justify $1,200 on Surface Pro when I can pick up a good laptop for $4-500 with a lot more memory and storage space, and more speed. Touch is not very practical on a desktop or laptop, or has minimalistic use. On the other hand, a tablet is not a good productivity tool or gaming machine - I rather use a laptop for that. My alternative - pick up a laptop and a tablet for $7-800. The RT is too expensive for a tablet, and lacks support for Microsoft applications - so it's really a useless peace of technology.
Leo Regulus
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Leo Regulus,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/11/2013 | 8:11:41 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
One could consider the PC a 'sledge-hammer', one size fits all approach. (IMHO) Probably less than 20 % of PC users ever used even 80% of its resources. Maybe we only need 1 PC to 12 users in an office - the remaining using specialized tablet / BYOB devices.
AsokAsus
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AsokAsus,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/12/2013 | 1:43:45 AM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
Steve Jobs called PCs "trucks", which is a much better analogy than sledge-hammer. Commerce needs both trucks and cars. Trucks do the heavy work and cars do the individual people transportation.
mmuldoon52501
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mmuldoon52501,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/11/2013 | 8:26:20 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
Microsoft is trying to be too many things at once. Windows 8 is a mess on the desktop. (Yes I know you can do Classic Shell etc and that works great. But the "out of box" experience sucks.) Surface Pro is something I wouldn't mind trying out but sorry, not at THAT price!! I think Windows 8 probably would work well there. And RT is just plain crippled. So instead at least 2 MS running machines in my house have been replaced by Nexus 7 tablets for internet, social networking, indeed anything that does not require a lot of keyboard work. Also, since the "ribbon" made it impossible for me to get anything productive done in documents, I've gone to LibreOffice and am much happier.

Just keep it up Microsoft and soon I won't be using any of your products.

MS did become mature with Windows 7. But you know what follows maturity: you become senile just before Alzheimer's kicks in. Clean the dribble off your chin MS.
proberts551
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proberts551,
User Rank: Strategist
4/11/2013 | 8:36:06 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
OK, I got my first look at the Windows Tablet today, because my Supervisor just got one. My first impression was...Pretty Cool! My second impression....it needs work!

The basic utilities for setting up printers is buried undernieth about 4 levels and we did not have a clue how to get to a simple "Add a printer" There may be other ways, but we could not find them?? Shezzzzz! Come on!

The interface can be cusomized with your own ICONS as shortcuts which is nice, but that is another learning curve. For the Price, this Windows 8 Tablet should be easy to use.

Simple problem. Make the touch interface simple. The help was not helpful, or at least not what I would have expected. We eventually got to what we needed , but not with out hunting around for it. It took 10 times as long to get to the place to install TCPIP Printers than it did to set it up! Not good.

Right out of the box, this tablet should have all the basic things needed to get on your LAN, set up printers, set up email, and so on. This thing needs to be friendly, not just Cool!

The Windows Tablet has potiential, and I do like it. If I get one, I will customize the heck out of the desktop...if you can call it that, to make my life easy. The average Joe....is going to say Huh? What do I do now?
renedr
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renedr,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/13/2013 | 1:55:35 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
The problem is price point. Android is free and it now dominates the mobile platform. Windows was inexpensive when it came to dominate the PC. OEM bundles back then cost less than USD20. (This was when a PC cost USD1,000). Someone will always be willing to pay extra money for Apple IOS and a cool Macbook Air. The rest of the world isn't willing to pay the extra money. Microsoft has lost its stranglehold and if it doesn't want to lose its no 1 position, it will have to significantly reprice its OS and Apps.

If Windows8 is free and MSOffice basic is free and MSOffice with all the bells and whistles is USD20, then Android will not stand a chance. Consumers have spent a lot of money on their PCs and are not willing to pay USD99.99/year to have MS Office 365. MSoffice has a chance to be the de-facto standard on everyone's desktop and tablets, forever! MS based apps can dominate the applications stores.

I have 4 PCs and had 5 notebooks accumulated over 8 years. I gave three Win97 notebooks away recently. But if I have to pay USD120 for a Win8 upgrade and USD200 for a new MSOffice, I will continue to use the MSOffice software I bought 2 years ago for the next 5 years, maybe, unless Google comes up with a better alternative by then.

I will probably buy a new Win8 notebook this year and I will just reload my old MSOFFICE 2010 Home and Office. I don't have any problems running any version of Windows. But either way, I don't see paying another USD220 for a new MSoffice H/O for a new laptop

Microsoft will have to build an Appstore and Playstore equivalent to enable the tapping into all the MS based development platforms already existing today. If Microsoft can execute on that, then the number of apps on the Appstore and on Play will easily be outnumbered by MS. Imagine every game designed to run on Windows being sold on the MS appstore. Or all the MS applications and all the MS centric Web based applications, database applications, graphics applications, etc. It will take a lot of work to make a MS Appstore that can accomodate the existing software base, but it can be done.

Win 8 is sufficiently similar to Win97, Win98, WinVista and Win7 and the PC's and Tablets of today are far more powerful than the workstations of just a few years ago so compatibility should not be an issue. Downloading the apps is not a problem since 1GB MP4 downloads can easily be done in 2 hours or less with today's typical broadband connections.

I would buy an Adobe Photoshop lite for USD10 from a Microsoft App Store, pay USD10 for Autocad lite, USD2 for a noise reduction image editing s/w, USD2 for a DLNA Video Player, USD5 for Call of Duty VerX, USD2 for Age of Empire, USD2 for Starcraft, etc., etc. etc.

Microsoft is stuck in the store bought software price point when the whole world has shifted to the appstore software price point.

The problem is price point.
deanmike
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deanmike,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/15/2013 | 2:24:18 AM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
>pay USD120 for a Win8 upgrade and USD200 for a new MSOffice, I will continue to >the MSOffice software I bought 2 years ago for the next 5 years, maybe, unless >comes up with a better alternative by then.

It I called LibreOffice and it isn't a google product.

>Microsoft is stuck in the store bought software price point when the whole world has >shifted to the appstore software price point.

It is more about functionality than price. Lots of people are going to Apple instead
mmuldoon52501
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mmuldoon52501,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/16/2013 | 9:50:59 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
Plus LibreOffice has a price point of USD0. That's right ZERO. It is also cross platform. So if you decided to pay USD0 (ZERO) for the operating system (think any good Linux distribution here) you get... exactly the same LibreOffice that you had on Windows. Total cost...USD0 (ZERO). Hmmmm that's a USD320 savings!
ANON1248317033621
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ANON1248317033621,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/16/2013 | 4:43:44 AM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
I can see why you gave away those win97 laptops... No support from Microsoft at all!
proberts551
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proberts551,
User Rank: Strategist
4/15/2013 | 12:37:52 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
I am over the age of 55yrs. I would not want a 7" tablet because I like having bigger screen size to view. I wear trifocals, and the bigger the screen, the better for me. I like the fact the a keyboard is part of this Windows Tablet. I also like the fact that the tablet is thin, and a very portable size, about the size of an 8 1/3 X 11" sheet of paper. That makes it an attractive replacement for a laptop. If you are at a home base, a mouse can be plugged into it as well. Nice! The cost is too much! I can by a Laptop of Engineering speed for about the same cost with a Quad core processor and higher Nvidia end video. I still like laptops, so the price will have to go down.
ITUSER
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ITUSER,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/23/2013 | 8:50:07 AM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
Simply put its terrible and has so many hidden options. No start menu that was some genius that thought to remove the most basic feature. Nothing is organized and it makes no sense! Did an idiot develop it?
How many overpaid executives had input on how it was supposed to work and failed at even basic tasks. HOW DO YOU TURN IT OFF------ ARE YOU KIDDING ME. Was the intent to screw over users at $110 a license? This is why monopolies are bad. Now where do we go with all our Windows based software investment since this software is so terrible. Apple does it better people why are we even talking about this?
ITUSER
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ITUSER,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/23/2013 | 8:52:43 AM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
In case you didn't notice most of the new stuff is the old stuff from Windows Media Center... now that must of taken them forever to slap it on a new version of windows 7 :(
Lord_Beavis
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Lord_Beavis,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/30/2013 | 5:39:02 PM
re: PC Market Bleeds: Windows 8 Tablet Fix Needed
Windows 8 tablet fix? It's called Ubuntu.


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