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Windows Blue: Restoring The Start Button Isn't Enough
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CopyingAppleIsDangerous
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CopyingAppleIsDangerous,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/13/2013 | 8:24:51 PM
re: Windows Blue: Restoring The Start Button Isn't Enough
The interface is not hard to understand. That's the problem. We get the Fisher-Price Mickey-Mouse interface. Engineers, especially...have no problems what so ever understanding that crap. We want it out of our way. You can call it innovation, call us intransigent, whatever...but fact is...many of the people complaining know 10x as much about electronics/computers as the W8 fanboys who are pushing it. Get it? No mystery here. We know that Windows 8 is little more than a shell namespace extension.

We hate it.
Terabyte Net
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Terabyte Net,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/2/2013 | 12:26:47 PM
re: Windows Blue: Restoring The Start Button Isn't Enough
Michael, may I submit the possibility that Win8 hasn't caught on with consumers for a few reasons that really have been ignored: 1) Win7 was very good. Vista, on the RIGHT hardware was very good. XP was around for so long that everyone assume it was very good (I'll take a Win7 x64 or Win8 x64 box on the same hardware up against any build of XP for speed and stability). 2) Since the introduction of multi-core CPUs and much cheaper RAM the lack of speed for most consumers and general business desktops has not been a reason to upgrade. Moore's Law finally caught up with the market place's demand for speed. 3) Reliability has improved so much in the past 5-10 years that I see PCs in production that are approaching 10 years old and still work. At a customer of mine that has 11 point-of-sale systems along with 45 computers and servers in various other roles, the POS machines were all purchased many years ago for other purposes, marketing, sales, management, etc... and have been repurposed to the lower-power-requirement tasks of simply running the POS system. The machines are blazing fast at selling product and are essentially free equipment after this many years. They keep 1-2 older systems around as spares in case one fails, but why should a business replace what works (assuming they can either afford to wait for a replacement PC or have spares)?

Articles have focused on the lack of sales assuming it's Win8's GUI. I submit it's not the GUI. It's not the toys on the market. I submit it's because the systems people bought, like the quad core Win7 x64 box I'm writing this post on, that were purchased several years ago, 3-+ in my case, are running great and are not in need of an upgrade at this time. Win8 just got caught in the crossfire of the toy craze (and again your 80% claim really doesn't sound valid).
Terabyte Net
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Terabyte Net,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/2/2013 | 12:13:27 PM
re: Windows Blue: Restoring The Start Button Isn't Enough
80%, really? Where did you get that number? The only way "80% of the tasks" could possibly be valid is if people are read e-mail, visiting web sites, playing Angry Birds, all day long etc...; however, if one actually wants to get paid or succeed in school, one had better not be doing that all day long.
Terabyte Net
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Terabyte Net,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/2/2013 | 12:10:35 PM
re: Windows Blue: Restoring The Start Button Isn't Enough
Michael, if a customer's computing needs are met by an iToy then they are using Facebook, browsing the web, and playing Angry Birds and not much else. You're trying to compare a pet rock with a Golden Retriever. Both can be considered pets, but which one is actually the pet? The Win8 GUI is only a problem because pundits and editors made it a problem. An 8MB download fixes the Start Menu "problem" and bypasses Metro at startup and while I'd love to see a native Start Button back, toys are just that, toys. They are not business friendly nor are they even student friendly. Write a 10,000 word essay with charts, graphs, footnotes, etc... on an iToy without a keyboard.
The Humungus
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The Humungus,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/1/2013 | 6:46:24 PM
re: Windows Blue: Restoring The Start Button Isn't Enough
Girls, here's my 2 duckets:

The far majority of people are NOT CAD Engineers and are NOT insane addicted 3D gamers who have to have the very fastest and most powerful available to squeeze out every pixel they can. As opposed to 15 years ago or even 10 years ago, the latest stat is that 84% of people's use of the computer now is mainly for internet. Most people don't even use hard core programs like they used to (I would exclude my comment from big Corps. and many tech professionals). That's why tablets have gone through the roof like they have the past few years. And tablets aren't even real computers, they're toys with toy O/S's! Bottom line is, most people are going to welcome a full PC in the form of a thin and light touch tablet. That's what the MS Surface Pro is about and that's where its all going. That's why HP, Samsung, Dell, and the rest are now jumping on that train. Mark it down. There will always be a small percentage of people (like I used to be) who have to have that Desktop PC Monster. I burnt out (5 years ago) building, overclocking, liquid cooling, nitrous oxide injected PC Monsters. Just don't need it anymore. And neither does 95% of the pop now. The entire industry is progressing (evolving?) into another animal. No matter what Microsoft does, it will become like IBM. No longer the almighty god, but still big and relevant.
jsnapp863
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jsnapp863,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/19/2013 | 10:52:14 PM
re: Windows Blue: Restoring The Start Button Isn't Enough
Their largest hurdle is non-support. They just haven't developed a game-plan that works. Once a product is out the door, the next one is the focus. Every time. They more or less let the expert users submit bugs - since the advent of WinXP (SP1), started heavily using forums, instead of support pages, to discover and remediate issues. The only thing that has saved their bacon so far was WinXP. Although they learned to just make small improvements to keep all of those businesses who used (and continue to use) it feel warm and fuzzy, they became greedy and attempted a "quantum leap" with Vista, Win7 and now Win8, which is so far out of the box, it's not understood, not required in a business environment, not trusted, nor selling.
Back to basics should be their mantra...
Michael Endler
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Michael Endler,
User Rank: Author
4/18/2013 | 8:33:09 PM
re: Windows Blue: Restoring The Start Button Isn't Enough
It's a valid point, and one others have espoused. I think it depends on the kind of relationship the user wants to have with the device. Some people, after becoming acclimated to the new UI, might conclude that Windows 8 is an improvement over Windows 7. I've certainly found that it crashes less than Windows 7.

But if the customer's computing needs are already met by an iPad, does the effort required to master Windows 8 add enough extra value? I can see arguments where the answer is "yes"; I, for example, spend too much time in word documents or multi-tasking to consider any of the current iOS or Android devices as my primary computing tool. But for the broader consumer market, "less clicking" might not hold sway. It's the difficulty Microsoft faces-- it's trying to be all things to all people, and to all businesses. It's a goal that takes time to get right, and the accelerated update cycle that Windows Blue will initiate will help. But there will be a point at which Microsoft will go from "trying to catch" to " stuck in third place." I don't know where that point is, and neither do the analysts I've spoken to. It's also hard to say how much consumer adoption actually Microsoft needs if it continues to dominate the business scene. But everyone agrees that this "point" is out there. And that puts pressure on Microsoft to make Windows Blue a more delightful and intuitive experience.
Michael Endler
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Michael Endler,
User Rank: Author
4/18/2013 | 8:14:10 PM
re: Windows Blue: Restoring The Start Button Isn't Enough
It's a fair point, and one others have brought up. There are workarounds that address the Start button issue.

But that's one reason I doubt bringing back these Windows 7 remnants will do much good for Microsoft in the long run. The Start button and desktop access just aren't big deals, at least not in relative terms. I have no problem with Microsoft including a boot-to-desktop mode or reintegrating the Start button-- but there are much bigger fish to fry. Still, those bigger fish are still metaphors for the same criticism that surrounds the Start button omissions: ease of use.

I can see why Redmond wanted to forcefully socialize users into the Live Tile universe-- but the Modern UI honestly wasn't polished enough for that sort of tactic. Not at the initial prices, anyhow. There's certainly a group of people who will see Windows 8 for what it offers, and who will happily find their own solutions for any of the OS's shortcomings. But consumers are at the core of the issue here, and tablets have conditioned people to expect interfaces that require very little training. One could certainly defend the philosophy Microsoft is demonstrating with its charm functions-- but actually accessing the tools is not that intuitive. If a device is expensive, consumers expect it to work out of the box-- not corner them into learning curves that competing devices somehow avoid.

And if consumers do put up with a learning curve, they expect to be rewarded for the effort. I know some people consider Windows 8 appropriately rewarding-- but there's a much larger group for whom Windows 8 has so far asked too much while delivering too little. I expect that to change by the Fall, when the market will boast touch-enabled devices with not only Windows 8.1 but also the newest Intel chips. These devices won't restore Redmond to its former glory-- but I suspect some of them will be pretty desirable at the high end and pretty cheap at the low end, a nice recipe for increased adoption. For now, though, I don't think Microsoft has shown average users the kinds of experiences (you'll notice I've used that word a lot when assessing Windows 8, both here and elsewhere) that engender enthusiasm.

Tablets can allegedly handle around 80% of the tasks that used to fall to PCs, or at least that's the number I've heard tossed around lately. If that's remotely accurate, I can see why consumers have turned their noses up at the initial round of Windows 8 offerings. For a majority of consumers, tablets do the things they need a computing device to do-- and they do them more intuitively and inexpensively than Win8 PCs.

To a heavy PC user, all this might sound silly-- but the people who typically read an IT-centric news site aren't the same people dictating market trends en masse. Those people used Windows in the past because it was the only option for many of them. Sure, there was always OS X, but Apple's machines are expensive, especially relative to the commodity PCs that, prior to Windows 8, dominated most of the budget-friendly personal computing price points. Some of these Windows users will stick with Microsoft because they like Windows. But others will drift to new options because, for the first time since the modern Redmond monopoly staked its ground, it's become practical and affordable to do so.
Michael Endler
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Michael Endler,
User Rank: Author
4/18/2013 | 7:48:25 PM
re: Windows Blue: Restoring The Start Button Isn't Enough
Thanks for reading, Jedddie. No, the PC isn't dead-- as the article states, both businesses and consumers will continue to buy PCs for years to come. I've tried to underscore this point in all the recent Windows 8 coverage; recent stories have highlighted, for instance, that analysts predict 270 PCs will be shipped in 2017. That's a massive volume. It might not match up to the PC's zenith, but by any standard, 270 million is a lot of product. Another recent article also posed a question similar to the one you allude to: what's the likelihood that we see Metro apps from SAP or Oracle anytime soon? So, yes, PCs will continue to be an essential tool for programmers, many business professionals, digital artists, scientists-- anyone, really, who needs high-powered, no-nonsense software for their job.

But that doesn't change the fact that Windows 8 hasn't caught on with consumers. In that market, yes, smartphones and tablets reign supreme, and a lot of people have even found ways to "real work" with the devices. Tablets certainly have their limits, so I don't see iOS and Android taking over the enterprise-- but they'll eat into the traditional Windows market share a little. That modest loss coupled with more substantial contraction in the consumer space means that Microsoft could go - in less than a decade - from running 90% of personal devices to running less than a third. That possibility isn't about the death of the PC; it's about about Redmond's status within the tech universe.

Michael Endler, IW Associate Editor
Jedddie
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Jedddie,
User Rank: Apprentice
4/18/2013 | 5:54:48 PM
re: Windows Blue: Restoring The Start Button Isn't Enough
So the PC is dead, and smartphones and tablets reign supreme? Go find some of the programmers who are writing the operating systems and apps for those devices. Ask them what they use for their development and coding. See how many of them use smartphones or tablets. When there's real work to be done, only a real computer will suffice.
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