Comments
EU Tells US: End Mass Spying
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Gary_EL
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Gary_EL,
User Rank: Ninja
11/29/2013 | 6:21:33 PM
A Potential Saturday Night Live skit?
>>  NSA spied on the porn habits of "radicalizers"

I laughed out loud when I read this. I'm imagining a skit on SNL with many of the big timers in our government, even those who don't like each other like Obama, Hillary and Cruz, getting together one evening, reading the printout, laughing, drinking beer and eating pizza, and slapping each other on the back over the tastes and peccadilloes of their European counterparts.

But seriously, nations, even friendly nations, have spied on each other since time immemorial and there is absolutely nothing new about it. And, if they want to boycott any of our commercial offerings over this, I hope we return the favor.

 

 

NSA spied on the porn habits of "radicalizers"
Susan Fourtané
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Susan Fourtané,
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11/30/2013 | 5:10:23 AM
Re: A Potential Saturday Night Live skit?
Gary, 

"And, if they want to boycott any of our commercial offerings over this, I hope we return the favor."

As someone who lives in Europe I find that as synonym of saying that it's Okay if the NSA spies on Europe. What would you think if Europe would return the favour spying on you?

I personally think that the NSA should have kept its spying within the limits of the US. 

". . . nations, even friendly nations, have spied on each other since time immemorial and there is absolutely nothing new about it."

The fact that it's nothing new doesn't mean it's something that should be regularly practiced. And it's true, Europe has not received well the mass spying, neither citizens nor governments. 

-Susan

 
Brian.Dean
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Brian.Dean,
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11/30/2013 | 12:40:31 PM
Re: A Potential Saturday Night Live skit?
Gary, yes a boycott for a boycott is one way to move forward, it is a competitive way. Another possible way could be to try a collaborative way which would involve a lot of compromise and negotiations. Cloud computing is efficient because it creates scale and specialization, limiting a customer base is only going to result in decreased efficiency. So I guess it is in the interest of businesses everywhere to resolve this all by collaboration.  
Faye__Kane
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Faye__Kane,
User Rank: Apprentice
12/2/2013 | 12:25:33 AM
"Seriously, nations, even friendly nations, have spied on each other since time immemorial"
 

Yeah, you're right.  Making Orwell's 1984 come true is no big deal—I mean, as long as you have nothing to hide, like that unpatriotic Winston Smith. 

And our government keeping a list of porn that people look at in case they want to embarass them someday isn't a big deal either.

Well, unless you're one of those anti-American "radicals" who objects to us sending an army of flying robots to blow up their country.

...Or an innocent person who maybe won't like us someday and might become a radical.  We should record their porn downloads, too!

And as long as our government is writing down people's porn preferences, we might as well go after those awful pedophiles who look at porn that's legal in every other civilized country, but which would get you decades of prison here in Moral America—you know, videos of 16 or 17 year-old girls.

YOU'VE never looked at any of that, have you?

Okay then!  You don't have anything to fear from your out-of-control government recording every single thing you do. 

Right?

And even if those unpatriotic Liberals get their way here, it's still okay to tap the phones and monitor the porn of anyone we want in all the other countries because... well, because they're not Americans! Hell, lets tape-record all the phone calls of their prime ministers and presidents!  Why should we care what a bunch of foreigners think about what we do to them?  It's not like they have anything we want!

-faye kane
Susan Fourtané
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Susan Fourtané,
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11/30/2013 | 6:03:06 AM
NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
Thomas, 

"Massive spying on our citizens, companies and leaders is unacceptable," said EU Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding in a statement. "Citizens on both sides of the Atlantic need to be reassured that their data is protected and companies need to know existing agreements are respected and enforced." 

I believe that statement is quite reasonable. Whoever thinks otherwise should have a very clear reason to why they would oppose to it. And this shoud be backed up by logic, and critical thinking to have to weight in the argument. 

NSA data collection should be limited to US borders. I see no reason whatsoever of why the NSA should spy on European citizens. 

At the Slush startup conference I recently attended in Helsinki the NSA spying on Europe was highly critized by prominent government figures, like the President of Estonia, who attended the conference as a speaker. Needless to say that this is a topic that is being critized in all spheres, not only in technology conferences. 

-Susan 
Brian.Dean
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Brian.Dean,
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11/30/2013 | 12:28:27 PM
Re: NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
Susan, I think no one should spy on anyone until they is a major concern that leaving things unearth will cause a major incident down the road.

Wouldn't EU and U.S. citizens be safer if the Safe Harbor Agreement was updated to take into consideration both sides? Considering that these economies together mount to around 44% of world production and are almost evenly split. Would the dangers of not coming to a reasonable agreement imply that next the states within U.S. would all want different standards.
Susan Fourtané
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Susan Fourtané,
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11/30/2013 | 5:34:01 PM
Re: NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
Brian, 

Exactly. 

"Would the dangers of not coming to a reasonable agreement imply that next the states within U.S. would all want different standards."

It might be as the different states always operate as if they were mini-countries within the big land, and we see this happening in law, regulations, rights, etc. They are already accustomed to having different standards, so why not? 

-Susan 
Brian.Dean
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Brian.Dean,
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11/30/2013 | 6:03:03 PM
Re: NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
Susan, Micro differences can remain and will always remain between states, but it's the macro differences that if left unresolved will cause a lot of problems for both EU businesses and businesses in the U.S. 

Imagine a situation where one state gets complete security protection and privacy, and the other does not, I am guessing states like California would push hard to get these benefits because it attracts clients. These benefits act much in the same way as lower SaaS taxes would promote higher SaaS startups to start businesses in a state. Why should New York be left behind or any state for that matter. 


It could happen that every state has a very different policy, and if it does happen then an EU business would have to keep track of SaaS businesses by state, just so that the provider has the power to meet their security expectations. Vice-versa, the same will happen to U.S. businesses, they too will have to keep a track of Cloud providers and which country they are physically located in for example, England or France etc.
Susan Fourtané
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Susan Fourtané,
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12/2/2013 | 4:39:17 AM
Re: NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
Brian, 

Yes, but you are forgetting about my main point: the NSA should stay in its national terrorory only: the US, not the EU.  

-Susan
RobPreston
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RobPreston,
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12/2/2013 | 9:41:11 AM
Re: NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
Limiting the NSA to US borders is like limiting the NYPD to Foley Square. 
Susan Fourtané
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Susan Fourtané,
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12/2/2013 | 9:44:52 AM
Re: NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
Rob, 

With the difference that Europe is not American territory. 

-Susan
RobPreston
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RobPreston,
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12/2/2013 | 9:54:15 AM
Re: NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
So we want a National Security Agency that's not allowed to venture outside the US? It's charged with ensuring national security, not policing the 50 states. Most of the people who threaten US security are outside its borders, not inside. 
Susan Fourtané
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Susan Fourtané,
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12/2/2013 | 10:04:11 AM
Re: NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
Rob, 

I doubt those people who threaten US security are in some of the European countries that are under the NSA eye. Why do you think the EU is asking to end the spying? 

-Susan 
Brian.Dean
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Brian.Dean,
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12/4/2013 | 4:51:31 PM
Re: NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
Susan, the $22 billion to $35 billion that the US IT industry is going to lose is not going to be completely lost, as some of it Canada and EU etc will gain. On a global level some of this is going to be convert into deadweight lose because of inefficiency.

To avoid such inefficiencies, the only thing that will work is for NSA, GCHQ (UK) and DGSE (France) etc that are all in violation of EU's 'sincere co-operation' treaty to come together and discuss ways to collaborate, and finish inefficiencies.
Susan Fourtané
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Susan Fourtané,
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12/5/2013 | 5:16:17 AM
Re: NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
Brian, 

"To avoid such inefficiencies, the only thing that will work is for NSA, GCHQ (UK) and DGSE (France) etc that are all in violation of EU's 'sincere co-operation' treaty to come together and discuss ways to collaborate, and finish inefficiencies."

That sounds reasonable. 

-Susan
Susan Fourtané
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Susan Fourtané,
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12/5/2013 | 5:12:24 AM
Re: NSA data collection should be limited to US borders
Rob, 

In the EU you find the most transparent, peaceful, and less corrupted countries in the world. Why do they represent a thread to the US? Why the US shoud invade their privacy? Why do you support this? 

-Susan
Faye__Kane
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Faye__Kane,
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12/2/2013 | 12:38:21 AM
How can this possibly get worse?
==-

So the EU is going to declare a "No Spying On Us" rule?  HAHAHAH!

Just how are you going to enforce that? By taking the NSA's word for it? 

The only way to make this end is for us Americans to get p1ssed off about it enough that we demand the NSA be taken apart and the pieces monitored by civilians, with punishment for garbage like Clapper who does it anyway and lies about it to the congress.

His excuse?  "That was the least dishonest thing I could say." Considering that it was a yes/no question with a binary answer, it was also the MOST dishonest thing he could say.

Good luck getting enough stupid rednecks (you know, Americans) to care or even understand what's going on. I wrote to my senators and they responded with an explanation of how it's all legal and okay, and that Snowden is a traitor.

Maybe the 'necks will pay attention now that we know the NSA records what kind of porn people look at.

--Faye Kane girl brain
Susan Fourtané
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Susan Fourtané,
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12/2/2013 | 1:54:26 AM
Re: How can this possibly get worse?
Faye, 

"The only way to make this end is for us Americans to get p1ssed off about it enough that we demand the NSA be taken apart..."

True. I wonder if that will ever happen. How many do they really care? Most of the population doesn't even know what's going on, which is a problem. Educate the masses, right?

"Good luck getting enough stupid rednecks (you know, Americans) to care or even understand what's going on."

Oh, well. And now we all in Europe have to pay. :(

But tell me, honestly, don't you think that the NSA has gone a bit out of territory? 

-Susan  
Lorna Garey
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Lorna Garey,
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12/2/2013 | 11:00:39 AM
Re: How can this possibly get worse?
Susan, The NSA's stated mission is to produce signal intelligence on foreign entities. The FBI is the agency charged with policing with the US. The EU is by definition within the NSA's purview.
Susan Fourtané
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Susan Fourtané,
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12/5/2013 | 5:07:00 AM
Re: How can this possibly get worse?
Lorna, 

I know. Do you really, really, really believe that the EU, where you find the most transparent, peaceful, and less corrupted countries in the world (there is proof about this) Why should the EU represent a thread to the US? Do you believe that? Why should citizens from these countries should be denied their privacy? Why? Why do you agree with this? 

-Susan 


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