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Women, IT & The Outrage Machine
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zerochamp
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zerochamp,
User Rank: Apprentice
3/4/2014 | 4:55:11 AM
Pay grade analysis
Here's an article on Quartz that may help or hinder this messy debate  It shows evidence that the pay gap between sexes in IT doesn't exist, although judging by the comments thread it may be guilty of logical leaps that the author here so strongly complains about.
jwestbrooks293
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jwestbrooks293,
User Rank: Strategist
2/26/2014 | 4:03:24 PM
Re: The smarter gender?
You're right and I don't know what the answer is.  I wish I did.
Lorna Garey
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Lorna Garey,
User Rank: Author
2/26/2014 | 3:49:29 PM
Re: The smarter gender?
You raise an interesting premise - what if employers had to pay overtime for all those 60 - 80 hour weeks spent coding? What would happen? My guess is, even more programming jobs would move to India or other countries without US-style labor laws. That wouldn't be good for men or women in the profession.

On the other hand, neither is being expected to work long hours as a matter of course, as opposed to occasionally when big projects enter crunch time.
jwestbrooks293
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jwestbrooks293,
User Rank: Strategist
2/26/2014 | 3:43:13 PM
Re: The smarter gender?
Yep.  Until the revolution comes and IT workers demand that they not be classified as "exempt" just because they work in a computer related job.  Until then IT work, for the mass of people, will just be a modern incarnation of the chain-gang.
Lorna Garey
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Lorna Garey,
User Rank: Author
2/23/2014 | 4:48:50 PM
Re: NSF stats tell the story
On the contrary - my advice couldn't be further from "sit down and shut up." And not to speak for Tammie, but I believe she feels the same.

It's more like: Go wherever the heck you want to go and do what you want to do. Don't let anyone -- including the hand-wringers -- tell you you can't or it's too scary or you'll be held down. Be a stand-up person and a team player. Keep your skills up to date. Be kind. Demand to be treated fairly. If a company doesn't value you, find one that does. Reach down to help those coming up behind you.
eunheekim
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eunheekim,
User Rank: Apprentice
2/23/2014 | 3:52:03 PM
Re: NSF stats tell the story
Pointing out that systemic racism and sexism exists in our society isn't walking around with a "chip on [one's] shoulder." Sad that your advice to marginalized people is to just sit down and shut up.
Lorna Garey
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Lorna Garey,
User Rank: Author
2/23/2014 | 3:07:45 PM
Re: NSF stats tell the story
"Maybe because, historically, women and PoC didn't have a voice. It's not until recent times that minorities can actually speak up without fear of persecution."

So, what, you want women and minorities to walk around with chips on their shoulders? For how long? Five more years? 10? How do you think that's going to work out?

Look, I spent six years in the military, much of it in an armored division where there were 10 men for every three women. It Texas. In the late 1980s. Talk about pervasive sexism. But I learned pretty fast that most men treated me the way I demanded -- and deserved based on my skills -- to be treated. Let's stop already with the "I am a victimization waiting to happen" mentality. All that mindset is doing is adding to the PR problem that IT has and discouraging women from entering the field, which makes the whole thing a vicious circle.

We can't and should not sweep illegal discrimination and harassment under the rug. But let's also decide not to walk around expecting to be treated like crap, because that tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
eunheekim
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eunheekim,
User Rank: Apprentice
2/23/2014 | 10:42:10 AM
Re: NSF stats tell the story
"That's kind of the point - folks who care more about diversity than anything else have their say and dominate the conversation every day."

Maybe because, historically, women and PoC didn't have a voice. It's not until recent times that minorities can actually speak up without fear of persecution.

"At some point women have to take responsibiltiy for their own choices; it's not always the fault of the employer or other employees. As if women can't make their own choices and are herded like sheep into other fields because of men, employers, and the education system."

What I personally don't understand is your insistence on ignoring the sexism that pervades the IT community. As someone who works in the IT industry, writes about IT and is a woman, you'd have to be hiding under a rock to not see the countless articles that come out month after month describing the level of sexual harassment women face. Go ahead and type "IT industry sexism" into Google. Or read the Twitter accounts of women who've led established careers in technology and are finally speaking out because they're either retired, left the IT industry or are now independent contractors. It's everywhere, and you can cover your ears and hide from it as much as you want, but the problem is there, it's real, and it's not going to go away.

If you want to be ignorant about what happens to other people in this industry, that's on you. But don't write articles blaming women for not wanting to be part of a hostile work environment.

"And again, "blame" implies some kind of problem. No one has satisfiactorily answered why we're having this debate in the first place."

Then apparently you're not paying attention.
Tammie Colivariti
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Tammie Colivariti,
User Rank: Apprentice
2/23/2014 | 9:29:04 AM
Re: NSF stats tell the story
That's kind of the point - folks who care more about diversity than anything else have their say and dominate the conversation every day.

We've been trying to "fix" this problem for 20 years and with all the meddling we've done where have we gotten?

Fewer women in technology. Apparently our meddling and concern is doing more harm than good. Most likely because we're looking at the problem completely wrong. If you really want to change the ratio of women in technology, then it's time to start considering we're looking in the wrong places to tinker.

At some point women have to take responsibiltiy for their own choices; it's not always the fault of the employer or other employees. As if women can't make their own choices and are herded like sheep into other fields because of men, employers, and the education system. Sometimes that's a factor, and we have rules and regulations and policies that govern those situations. And yet here we are, with the same "problem" and the same old debate.

And again, "blame" implies some kind of problem. No one has satisfiactorily answered why we're having this debate in the first place.
AbdulT993
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AbdulT993,
User Rank: Apprentice
2/22/2014 | 2:43:19 PM
Thank you, Tammie Colivariti
Thank you for this well-written, common sense article. The FACT of the matter is that nothing, absolutely nothing, is keeping women from entering into IT. Despite all of the wailing, moaning and hand wringing of the would-be social engineers, women freely make their own career choices these days and have for quite some time. Everyone knows that it is illegal to deny someone a job based on gender, so it is a woman's own choice whether or not to get into IT.  Duh.

The "outrage machine" is actually just a liberal political agenda. Who else but liberals bean count every facet of life hunting for X (gender, ethnic, sex orientation, etc) under-representation or inequality or whatever their cause du jour?

Abdul
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