InformationWeek Radio
New Storage Economics with Flash and Data Tiering
Date / Time: Wednesday, July 23, 2014, 2:00 PM New York/11:00 AM San Francisco
Sponsored by
Overview:

Applications are the lifeblood of an organization. They need to be optimized and perform when needed. Those applications like databases, virtualization, and collaboration require storage systems that serve, store and protect data and do it efficiently. As application requirements change and demand increases, the initial design of the storage solution may not be able to deliver when needed. The challenge for IT architects today is designing a system that takes advantage of new technology and best practices to support current and future applications.

Many customers turn to Flash based storage (Solid State Disk) to overcome these challenges, but feel they can only do so for a small set of applications due to the high perceived cost of the technologies. In this special, sponsored radio episode our expert guests will talk about how Dell is changing the economics of storage by allowing you to adopt flash technology for more applications at the cost of traditional hard disk drive solutions.



The audio player will load automatically when the radio show audio begins. Some corporate networks block the sort of streaming audio content used by this player. Please make sure you have the latest version of Adobe Flash for your Internet browser via Adobe's web site. If the player loads but you are not able to hear the live audio, you may still be able to hear the archived audio after the live program begins by returning to this page. Please try refreshing your browser a few times if you still cannot hear the audio. More Troubleshooting
Live Chat
You must login to participate in this chat. Please login.

Thanks to all involved with today's installment.

And special thanks to MichaelS940 for providing the proper link to get here.

Yes, it is great to see (hear) you again, CF !

Apprentice

Thanks for keeping the archive available

Ninja

Glad to hear energetic voice of Curt again

Ninja

Hello! I guess, I am late again

Ninja

Thanks! This was very good!

Apprentice

any Ninjas still here?

Apprentice

When do they let us know if we are one of the 25 Amazon gift card winners?

Apprentice

All the Ninjas seems to have jumped ship?

Ninja

Thanks  everyone!

Apprentice

I just play one on live chats.

Ninja

I think they may have left now, rgrocoff328. I'm not a real ninja myself.

Ninja

thanks for all the info

Apprentice

Any of the Ninjas still here?

Apprentice

See you later, Technocrati, nice talking to you :)

Apprentice

Thanks for a great chat, Have a great day everyone !

Ninja

Guess we're out of here for now :)

 

Thanks to everyone for a great show and chat!

Apprentice

More recently, when looking at in the server Flash for your VM ESX host, we've made the switch a 18 months ago.  Originally we were using a pair of 300GB SAS drives in each ESX Host blade.  We replaced it with a pair of 100GB SSDs.  The cost for the 100GB SSD is slightly more than the 300GB SAS disk but relatively comperable.  ESX doesn't take much of the 100GB so the remainder is used as a Read Cache.  We were at the ESX version which only supports in the Server SSD as Read Cache.  I think 5.5 or what is about to be released will start to use the spare SSD space as R/W Cache.

Sorry, we have not measured performance benefit.

  

Apprentice

thank you for good info and chat

Ninja

Have a good one, everyone!

Apprentice

Thanks, again, for the program and chat!  And a good Wednesday for all--

Apprentice

@seamus: Good to know.

Apprentice

When do we find out if we are one of the winners for the Amazon gift cards?

Apprentice

Replacing your entire SAN with Flash SAN is not quite there from a cost perspective in my opinion, but does appear to be getting much closer.

Apprentice

I meant our SLC drives are rated for write up to 3x their capacity per day for 5 years...which would mean that you are filling your change data rate would be immense.

Apprentice

@Konrand-Seems right.

Ninja

Regarding flash SAN based solutions, my company has used flash as a tiering level in our SAN for many years.

 

Apprentice

@Timd317  Because of the write degredation we actually use SLC drives for writes...which are rated to be written 3x their capacity for 5 years so attaining that spec to wear out the drive in a normal deployment would be very unusual. 

Apprentice

For vendors which don't warranty past wear level, I don't think it matters whether you extend warranty or maintenance.  You're just done.  Replacement is on the customer, as I understand.

Apprentice

@Seamus-I have.The functionality is superior for sure,Just not sure if extra cost is worth it.

Ninja

@seamus-I am assuming you can always extend the warranty in place?Correct?

Ninja

thanks again. good bye

Apprentice

Have many of you evaluated flash SAN based solutions for your virtualization or other application recently?

Apprentice

@SamBatDell    Thanks I did not know that information regarding MLC vs. SLC

Ninja

FYI, please note that the incorrect link was provided to many of us, I would have joined this *a lot* sooner if the right one was provided (a lot of digging to find the right one). Thanks.

Apprentice

chat is always good

Apprentice

I find it interesting that some vendors will cover replacement of SSD if it exceeds wear life as long as maintenance is current while other vendors do not cover the drive past the wear life of the drive.

Apprentice

@Ashu001 When we are evaluating mfg disks we do consider the degredation and life span of the cells within those disks....all of our platforms are certified for3 years based on high writes.  The only way to manage it is to ensure you have warrenty and redundency of the platform to deal with failure.

 

Apprentice

@Konrad-You can view the archived broadcast here

http://www.informationweek.com/radio.asp?webinar_id=108

Ninja

Thanks for that info SamBatDell.

Apprentice

Dell storage technology addresses this by sending all inbound writes to the SLC drives, and then tiering to the larger capacity MLC drives

Apprentice

Some have experienced some techincal difficulties.  Moderator, do you have link to achived broadcast for the individual who heard nothing?

 

Apprentice

And just for the record-UT Austin ROCKS!!!

Ninja

Thanks for the link

Ninja

@Sam-The rate of Wear out on Flash is way too High currently.Anyway to slow it down?

Ninja

On MLC vs SLC:  

All flash based SSD drives have a

common enemy, writes, which cause the storage devices to wear out. But SLC is much better suited to

handling write traffic than MLC both from a performance and endurance stand point. In fact SLC flash can

last 5X to 10X longer than MLC and ingest writes 2-3X faster. Both flash types have similar read

characteristics but MLC is significantly less expensive.

Apprentice

Yep, it's "unstructured" chat.   ;)

Apprentice

thanks for the link

Apprentice

Thanks for the link to the performance tool, I'll take a look at it now.

Apprentice

I was on for a while and heard nothing... any chance there is a re-broadcast?

Apprentice

Thank you!  Informative session!

Apprentice

just ended; I think they want us to continue in chat.  Is this unstructured chat discussion?

 

Apprentice

ah, the sound is here!

Ninja

thanks for the great info

Apprentice

audio just ended OBras2342

Ninja

You're late :) I think it's archived, though.

Apprentice

appreciate your time

Apprentice

really learned alot. thank you everybody

Apprentice

I am not able to hear anyhing, am I late or early or just having tech difficulty???

 

Apprentice
Thanks for the discussion.
Apprentice

Thank you Curtis and guests ,,,,great topic

 

Ninja

Thanks for the great info, looking forward to more! Very interesting topic.

Apprentice

Many thanks for the presentation--

Apprentice

What about the cost/benefit analyis of SLC vs. MLC SSD drives?

Apprentice

the analysis sounds like something that is useful!

 

Apprentice

@dtarpkin   Glad you could make it - this is a hot topic !

Ninja

Sorry I'm late......

Apprentice

Yes, ways to decide!  Performance, size, ????

 

Apprentice

Yeah, I thought about RAID as well.

Apprentice

I thought RAID could be used, nice to have it confirmed 

Ninja

LOL :)) I wish...

Apprentice

Probably have to use adaptors in some cases with could

introduce some latency I would think 

Ninja

@relliot917 be sure to get your commission from NewEgg. Kidding.

Ninja

this would be something good to know

Apprentice

It was a MLC drive (Crucial brand) in a 7mm format. You have to use an adapter to mount it in most cases.

Apprentice

@reliot917   Cool.  I can hold out until it does 

Ninja

Technocrati, I was tempted... but didn't buy one, I think we'll see even better prices soon. Prices are dropping pretty fast.

Apprentice

@relliott:  Saw that as well--great to see!  Although, I'd like a 1TB SSD ...   ;)

Apprentice

I have a old piece of hardware that needs a drive

I should go SSD vs traditional. I am going to check it out

I think it should support the drive .

Ninja

@reliott917  agreed.  That is great news !

Ninja

Speaking of price, Newegg this morning had a 240GB SSD for $103, less than $0.50/GB. Prices are coming down!

Apprentice

@johj.1481   Afternoon 

 

Ninja

Can you use raid across SSD?

Apprentice

How complex is data recovery if a SSD fails?

Apprentice

@wxia015   Hello glad you could make it 

Ninja

Some vendors incorporate health management for SSD arrays, to utilize "spare" capacity and allow for "drive" replacement

Apprentice

Good point, you could use an external device 

Ninja

Anyone still having problems with the player, make sure Flash is enabled or player won't appear.

Apprentice

If you have old hardware, can they handle it ?

Ninja

try to refresh or logout and relogin

Ninja

Good question Curitis 

 

Ninja

ah, sorry -- it starts but then doesn't play, even with refresh, for chrome, ie and firefox

Ninja

the read/write issue if using ssd's for mass storage 

Do they die more than traditional disk ?

Ninja

What approx. percentage of applications will benefit from the lower access time and latency of SSD?

Apprentice

Chrome worked. IE did not.  Hello everyone!

Ninja

For those having issues hearing this interview, try refreshing several times. You could try another browser. You might be having issues with security and firewalls, etc. If you're not successful with the live version, all events here are recorded so you can check back later to listen to the recording.

Ninja

Hope my not being able to hear the audio doesn't thwart a chance at the amazon...

Apprentice

I have IE10 not sure what versions you guys have

Apprentice

I was prompted for registration when I used Chrome, but cancelled and still got in okay

 

Apprentice

IE11 launched the show just fine, with a refresh ...

Apprentice

@Konrad   Try logging back in 

Ninja
Got it working now on iphone.
Apprentice

still not on with IE

Ninja

is there a moderator?

Apprentice

yes it is working for me

 

Apprentice

IE v8.0.7601.17514 failed to lauch audio
Chrome worked perfectly

 

Apprentice

Broken, how do I fix this?  I'm not going to redo my registration in chrome.

Apprentice
Is the broadcast working? Thx!
Apprentice

great event! :)

Apprentice

@shannonmartin that's what I always use.

Ninja

Good Afternoon!

 

Apprentice

Took a couple of refreshes, but it's working great now!

Apprentice

I love the tier zero model. But is that viable for the average enterprise these days?

Strategist

can't get anything either

 

Ninja

Though last time I signed on, I was able to access the webinar... ah, well.

 

Apprentice

Still not working!

Apprentice

David: Must be - refreshed again. Nada mas. Sorry. Guess I'll sign on to hear the recording later.

Apprentice

I had to move to Chrome. Now all is fine.

Apprentice

@ph1 you might want to try more than once. I've had to refresh several times, depending on my system and the browser

Ninja

@ph1- Sometimes it is your browser or security combo. 

Strategist

@ph1:  Or you might try a different browser, or a system restart.

Apprentice

Ariella - you're such a kidder... ;)

Apprentice

Thanks, Ariella. Feel free to dive right in with questions. 

Strategist

@ph1:  Did you try a webpage refresh?  That sometimes will get things started ...

Apprentice

Yup - did that David... no go. Sorry. :(

Apprentice

Not seeing an audio player, even after refreshing my browser.

 

 

Apprentice

audio good here! : )

Ninja

audio works fine for me - Internet Explore 11

Apprentice

Discussions are always great here.

Ninja

@ph1- Try refreshing your browser.

Strategist

Not seeing the audio player...

 

Apprentice

audio has been loud and clear for me

Ninja

I love IT folks with degrees in something other than IT. I think it gives them a good view point. Of course, you also need the technical chops.

Strategist

All good here!

 

Apprentice

Look like my company blocks this player via websense. Too bad InfoWeek is too cheap to use webex or something that is not blocked.

it is still going for me.

Apprentice

It appeared and started with a refresh ...

Apprentice

it does and is working for me

Apprentice

@meredithj100- If you don't have a ppayer yet, try refreshing. Show has started

Strategist

@Preyes:  The audio player should appear automatically at the time.

Apprentice

Ah there it is!

Apprentice

Hi all. thanks for coming. The player should be visible now. Show has started.

Strategist

@demente077- The player will appear when the show starts.

Strategist

yes we are here

 

Apprentice

Where is the play button to start the stream?

 

Apprentice

Less than a minute to go until show-time!

Strategist

Coming on up ...  Please let others know if the program starts for you.

Apprentice

@Tsteele152- Show starts in 1 minute. A player will appear automatically.

Strategist

Hi medwards371. Sorry, I went to get a drink before the show started. Welcome.

Strategist

I cannot see the webinar.  I tried two browsers and refreshed the cache.

Apprentice

And of course, looking forward to hearing about the new storage methods/approach.

Looking forward to getting the $25 Amazon card.  good luck! :))

Is this a live show? 

 

i think you're right david, i don't like the word flash either

Apprentice

When the show starts, the player will appear. If for some reason it doesn't, usually refreshing your browser does the trick.

Strategist

8 minutes to show time. 

Strategist

I wonder if Flash would do better with another name? Flash just sounds expensive. 

Strategist

If anyone wants to start lining up questions for the guest, feel free to post them now. We'll try to get to them during the show or in the chat after the show.

Strategist

Welcome, AnthonyL95101 and Jeff.zhu

Strategist

@rajanP654- The play button will appear when the show starts.

Strategist

Hi vanbarsoun, welcome to everyone. I see a lot of new faces.

Strategist

I am a huge fan of data tiering. I wish the brain did it. Like, i wish I could put song lyrics and sports figured in cold data tiers to make room for more important stuff like remembering to pick up the dry cleaning.

Strategist

i dont see the play button

Apprentice

Hi all, looking forward to the show. 

Strategist

Looking forward to the active discussion and please do offer personal experiences to add great insight! 

Apprentice

We'd love to have your voice in the discussion here. To take part, just type your comment into the "Your Post" box and then click on the "Post" button below the box. Feel free to introduce yourself before the show starts -- I think you'll find that we're a very friendly community here! 

Strategist

Hey, everyone, we're glad you could join us! When the show is scheduled to start, an audio player should appear above the "Your Post" window. If it doesn't appear, you might need to refresh your browser until it does. If it appears but doesn't start playing, then you may need to click on the "play" button on the far left of the player. 

Strategist

Hi all! Wow, lots of people checking in early : )

Ninja

Coming up soon, get some more coffee.  ;)

Apprentice

Looking forward to this one !

 

Apprentice

Hello everybody!

 

Apprentice

See everyone shortly.

Apprentice

And time for that morning coffee!

Apprentice

See y'all later today, folks ...

Apprentice

See everyone in a little under 12 hours!

Apprentice

Or, even, today's "program."   ;)

Apprentice

Happy Wednesday--and looking forward to today's ptogram!

Apprentice
Hope to attend this interesting section
Ninja

Hello all!  See you tomorrow.

Apprentice

 

Hello everyone . . . .

 

Apprentice

Should be an interesting program, looking forward to it!

Apprentice

Look forward to this program--

Apprentice

 

Good morning.

 

Apprentice

interested topic since i am working on ssd

Apprentice
Register for InformationWeek Newsletters
White Papers
Current Issue
InformationWeek Tech Digest, Nov. 10, 2014
Just 30% of respondents to our new survey say their companies are very or extremely effective at identifying critical data and analyzing it to make decisions, down from 42% in 2013. What gives?
Video
Slideshows
Twitter Feed
InformationWeek Radio
Archived InformationWeek Radio
Join us for a roundup of the top stories on InformationWeek.com for the week of November 16, 2014.
Sponsored Live Streaming Video
Everything You've Been Told About Mobility Is Wrong
Attend this video symposium with Sean Wisdom, Global Director of Mobility Solutions, and learn about how you can harness powerful new products to mobilize your business potential.