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What Microsoft Windows 8 License Numbers Don't Say
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moarsauce123
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moarsauce123,
User Rank: Ninja
5/9/2013 | 11:30:24 AM
re: What Microsoft Windows 8 License Numbers Don't Say
Use it for what? Surfing the web? Writing email? Watch cat videos on YouTube? Update Facebook? Any halfway modern OS can do that with ease and in regards to email even much better than Win8 (admit it, the email client that comes with Win8 just stinks). For anything else, Win8 is like an anchor for a ocean liner tied to a rubber boat. It might still float for a while but it isn't going anywhere.
Bmeh
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Bmeh,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/9/2013 | 8:32:22 AM
re: What Microsoft Windows 8 License Numbers Don't Say
As another aging consultant, I beg to disagree. Yes I remember punch card but had not actively used it, so may be you had, more power to you.

As for moving on, that punch card analogy is really a fallacy. Punch card to Windows 7 is not the same as Windows 7 to Windows 8. You claimed that there is not a problem for people to love it, but for the majority of the people who already are satisfied with Windows 7, why do you force them to either buy an upgrade licence, install it, or buy a new computer that comes with Windows 8, and then need to migrate everything else over (I don't care if you are fluent with MS MDT or whatever tools, I am talking about the majority of other people).

Hesitant to buy? Because they heard stories? People hear stories that cigarette smoking can kill you and they still keep buying it so stop that kind of blame game here. Why would you entice your clients to upgrade to Windows 8 from Windows 7? So you get more consultant fees right? If so, at least admit it. If not, then you are doing users a disservice, actually.

You know, you drive a MINI, and your wife drive a MINI. Do you upgrade your car every 2 years (that's because that's the approx time frame between Win 7 and Win 8), because I am sure in 2 years, any mass produced automobiles have some kind of improvements, and nobody would say the newest model is "terrible". But may be you do, so more power to you. But don't lecture the rest of us who can't do the same thing, because we can't afford it, or simply there is no need.

This is exactly the reason for Windows 8 not being needed. Unless you have a touch screen, which is the main reason why you would want the (no longer) Metro interface, to most people, there aren't enough difference (I give you the Classic Shell as a free point) to most people. The slightly higher efficiency because they threw out some stuff (like tons of drivers) is noticeable to only hobbyists, not to most people. But most people do not have a touch screen, nor they would need to. There is simply no advantage if they are running Office or most popular programs.

Another thing I don't understand is why you would compare Metro interface with Android and iOS, because the latter 2 are mobile platforms, not desktop platforms, while WIndows 8 is a desktop platform. You might want to argue Windows 8 RT is a mobile platform, but let's not go there (for another day). (and RT is not mentioned in this whole discussion here either).

You are making a big leap on your argument, in that "Windows 8 is not that hard to use, and not as bad as people claim" which I personally do not necessarily disagree (you might find this interesting but I am a fair person). But your next statement is a conclusion based on the former argument "thus you don't understand why people do not purchase the upgrade / new computer", and you can see, I have made a counter argument earlier. Just because something is rather good, or not bad, is not justified enough to upgrade.

Everyone has been burned in the past by the upgrade game, there is no easy and foolproof way. The best practice in IT, of course, encompassing planning, backing up everything (data, app config / data, system image, just in case), deployment (upgrade / fresh install / whatever you can use), restore data (static data, app config / data), system adjustment (some stuff might not migrate perfectly, you never know), system updates, etc. And when everything is done, another backup of new system (image / data) etc. As an IT consultant, you must understand this better than most other people, that there is a cost to upgrade, (money or labour or both). So it is not just the $15 to $150 cost on the licensing itself.

Sure you can argue as one should simply buy a brand new computer, but still the data migration plus new system config and adjustment still needs to be made. So if this is not a big difference, why would anyone bother to make the jump?

I have explained clearly why most people would not bother, and it is completely not because of what you said, that all these people have read articles such as Information Week (most people don't even know this), or on CNN, and then made a decision to save the money when they go visit the computer store next week. It is not like that, it is not like buying the latest coolest toy for Christmas. This is not something entirely new, and most people have computers already.

And nobody can deny that both Android and iOS tablets have eaten away the desktop and laptop market a whole lot. Especially in the consumer space, the people are simply satisfied with the touch interface and the overall experience on these affordable portable devices. So as long as they have a Windows 7 laptop or desktop to do the serious stuff, why bother to upgrade to Windows 8?

As a matter of fact, many people, and organizations are not even upgrading to Windows 7 from Windows XP, as XP runs well enough for most of them. Official support ends in a year (extended again), and still many orgs are sticking w/ it. I guess you would call all these IT departments and individuals users stupid or something.

Don't get me wrong, I buy lots of new stuff, but I also keep a lot of old stuff. They all have their places. But I would never push my clients to buy and use the latest and the greatest as they are not necessary the best (for them). I don't want to make that kind of money off them. I want to help them get the best bang for their bucks (not mine). That's why I have yet to advise one single client to buy into Windows 8 because none of them as such a need. (the only type I can see with that need is software developers who need to test their wares, or hobbyists who want the latest for their experiments, but both do not employ my services).

Sure 8 runs well. I don't deny it. But it is expected. It is just not compelling enough. May be if they do what OS X does, charges only $10. for the upgrade. And also make the effort seamless and effortless. May be that would be an incentive. And should also make the rollback as easy as one click.

History shows that Vista is a bloatware haven, even though it also runs well. Not every single version is that great, and even MS admitted to that (only you haven't). When the newer version comes out, they will admit their last wasn't that great (a big change of tone). But they are the manufacturer so I forgive them for saying some lies. But as an independent consultant, please don't say all these journalists are all doing everyone a disservice. Or may be the news about smoking causes cancer you also tell people it is a lie too.

I will wait for Windows "8.1" and see. No need to hurry at all.

(Disclaimer: My friend who works at MS has reserved a Win 8 Ultimate for me, and I am not even in a hurry to pick it up. I did test the beta and the RTM version briefly. To me it is no big deal.}
Terabyte Net
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Terabyte Net,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/8/2013 | 7:16:07 PM
re: What Microsoft Windows 8 License Numbers Don't Say
What he's saying is if you are willing to get past a 10 minute learning curve anyone can learn a new product. I can drive both my 6 speed MINI and my wife's 5 speed MINI. I'd never driven a 6 speed straight drive before I got my MINI and yes, it took a couple of times driving it to remember that I could shift out of 5th to 6th to save gas, but honestly I drive mine more than my wife's and I have to be very careful not to try to shift into 6th in her's since that's reverse! My point, is as with most things in life, there's a learning curve, but this curve is not as big as writers have made it out to be.

As for how the business world works, I remember punch cards. Why are we not using them? They were replaced. Was there a learning curve? Must not have been since we didn't go back to punch cards.
Terabyte Net
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Terabyte Net,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/8/2013 | 7:12:34 PM
re: What Microsoft Windows 8 License Numbers Don't Say
Really Charlie, 3rd place? Have you actually used Metro vs. Android or iOS? Metro is HIGHLY customizable. iOS uses tired old icons, not much different from Apple's first icon GUI on the Apple II, that you can't change nor are they interactive. Android at least has some interactive widgets, but they're still not highly customizable. Metro is far and away more customizable and as more and more Metro-enabled apps arrive it will make Android and iOS look positively ancient by comparison.

In fact, take another look at Android and iOS then go look at screenshots of Program Manager from Windows 3.11 and earlier as well NT 3.51 and earlier (http://toastytech.com/guis/nt3.... A maximized Program Manager group looks ALMOST IDENTICAL to each screen on an iOS device and without widgets, that's exactly what an Android screen looks like, of course without the ability to scroll left/right to more icons, though you could have all-but-unlimited Program Manager groups. There's just no comparison to Metro's customization to that of iOS or Android.

Honestly, Chrisgull us is right, I believe the public has been so hesitant to buy Win8 because they've been told to be by naysayer bloggers and writers, who the public believes are writing unbiased reviews based on facts. As an IT consultant I've yet to have a single customer complain about Win8, especially with Classic Shell installed, but even those that use Metro and gave it time to learn are happy with it, but positive stories don't bring viewers back to see the next positive review. People love to hate Microsoft and have for decades but writers do the public and IT departments a disservice when they complain about something that really has no basis in fact.
UberGoober
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UberGoober,
User Rank: Strategist
5/8/2013 | 4:58:08 PM
re: What Microsoft Windows 8 License Numbers Don't Say
So what you're saying is that M$ has created an OS that is easy for 16-year-olds to use, but hard for people who actually use computers for being productive instead of watching TV and Twittering. Not sure that's a win. Change for the sake of change is fine in art or entertainment, but not usually in the business world.

By the way, do you use a Dvorak keyboard? Its *much* faster to type on, once you get past that pesky learning curve. And a 6 year old wouldn't have any trouble with it, they would just use it...
Terabyte Net
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Terabyte Net,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/8/2013 | 3:34:32 PM
re: What Microsoft Windows 8 License Numbers Don't Say
@Chrisgull, you're pretty much 100% correct. I put my now 16-year old on it in March, as an upgrade from Win7 x64 on a Dell Latitude e6520 and it was immediately loved. Writers of all mediums have whined about it and their doom-and-gloom likely keeps potential consumers away. I'd almost guarantee if the same doom-and-gloom writers had come out and said "WOW, what a great OS. It's fast, stable, reliable, and secure. Everyone should upgrade now!" Microsoft would have sold 2-3x as many copies, but good news doesn't drive ad-sales and these guys need to bring people back time and time again to be bombarded with meaningless ads while reading articles that continue to rehash the same old tired argument that Win8 is not liked. These same writers whined about Vista when Vista, in fact, was just fine if you ran it on the right hardware. The solution is for us, the readers of these "fine" articles to stop reading them and when their view-rates drop off they'll stop with the whining.

I personally, as an "old" guy, find Win8 just fine. Add Classic Shell to it and there's no reason not to go to it over Win7. Add its stability, reliability, speed, and security and why would you go to Win7? L.A.Z.Y syndrome is the only excuse I can think of. Too lazy to learn a new GUI. Maybe Microsoft would ship Program Manager with Blue for those writers who still haven't migrated from Windows 1.x-3.xx to Windows 95's GUI.
cbabcock
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cbabcock,
User Rank: Strategist
5/8/2013 | 12:11:10 AM
re: What Microsoft Windows 8 License Numbers Don't Say
The tiles of Windows 8 will eventually prove an alternative consumer choice to the iPad and Android interfaces. But it may always rank number three. Michael Endler's commentary above is a good, realistic discussion of Microsoft's numbers games and why we shouldn't take them too seriously. Other companies do this also, emphasize the number of copies shipped without saying how many are actually in use, something, in truth, they may rather not know, Microsoft's strength remains on the business desktop and on the data center server; its wish to once again be the consumer-favorite contains an element of wishful thinking. Charlie Babcock, editor at large, InformationWeek
Chrisgull
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Chrisgull,
User Rank: Apprentice
5/7/2013 | 7:28:22 PM
re: What Microsoft Windows 8 License Numbers Don't Say
What learning curve? Put a 15-year old - or even a six-year old - in front of Windows 8, and they just use it. No complaints, no questions - they just figure it out. The ones complaining are us "old" people (and perhaps most of all the vocal bloggers and journalists than anyone else).
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